Risks of medicine!

[Puciek]

If you are looking for IC reasoning for it, it can be anything from the availability of nurses to tools and specifically used during and post treatment, not necessarily their cleanliness, which would also go well with the nuisance of resupply for non-hospital medical stations, etc. But the point is to even the field because I can't remember whenever a back-alley physician was caught, I think it's rarer than player bans, and yet it's quite common practice because it's more or less risk-free.

[Famine]

Dono, seems silly that someone like a knight would not know the first thing of treating a wound, especially if they have been cut before and watched others treat him/her. I would imagine that if someone versed in combat got struct with an arrow, they would not walk around not knowing how to deal with it until they saw a doctor. They would likely know how to somewhat deal with the arrow and likely knows what may follow after if in certain locations on their bodies. For example, if you got shot in the liver, how they might know if the blood is a certain color, they will likely die in the next couple of hours or if the color is fine, but developed a fever the following night, they likely had a infection and would die in a week versus a doctor who may know the reason on why and have a better option to prevent death.

Course, that's just me. Could be totally wrong there in thinking no one has the slightest idea that if they are cut, maybe they should bind it versus someone going, "Oh, you have a hole now! Let's stuff some meat in it for safe keeping!"

[Puciek]

Dono, seems silly that someone like a knight would not know the first thing of treating a wound, especially if they have been cut before and watched others treat him/her. I would imagine that if someone versed in combat got struct with an arrow, they would not walk around not knowing how to deal with it until they saw a doctor. They would likely know how to somewhat deal with the arrow and likely knows what may follow after if in certain locations on their bodies. For example, if you got shot in the liver, how they might know if the blood is a certain color, they will likely die in the next couple of hours or if the color is fine, but developed a fever the following night, they likely had a infection and would die in a week versus a doctor who may know the reason on why and have a better option to prevent death.

Course, that's just me. Could be totally wrong there in thinking no one has the slightest idea that if they are cut, maybe they should bind it versus someone going, "Oh, you have a hole now! Let's stuff some meat in it for safe keeping!"

I am not going to get into the discussion of what makes or doesn't make icly sense to have medicine as this really isn't the topic for it (and I've indicated that in OP). People are free to make any rp choices to be as self-sufficient as they want, and it's not my place to comment on their RP choices. That's why I've limited myself to quoting the help files, and will not be getting into it any further. Feel free to open another topic on a validity of rp reasons for owning medicine if you think that it is an interesting one.

[Delphine]

The only thing I want to sound off on is something that's already been mentioned before in this thread: that of house calls.

I've had to call a physician for some "house call" RP before. Granted, it was a pure RP sort of thing so if your suggestion was an actual thing, I wouldn't have had any greater risk of infection because they were "treating" outside the Madison. But what if it had been an actual treatment? Especially for the higher class, it would make more sense for the physician to come to them as opposed to the well-to-do going down to the Madison where the COMMON PEOPLE ARE. For example, there was one day I had to go to the Madison for something and there was a freeman in the triage coughing everywhere. My character's first thought was, "Ew. This is a dirty place. What if that commoner gets me sick? I should have just seen if I could get a physician to come to me."

I also feel like part of this sort of effect that you're talking about can be achieved with RP, though. Like for example, I've had people before complain to me about they hate when gentry do non-gentry things (like manual labor). And my response to that always is: "so.. ICly shame them for doing things that are common and beneath them!" If someone goes to seek a back-alley doctor/goes to get treated by a non-Madison "healer" - obviously they're up to something shady. What are they trying to hide from the Madison? Etc. etc. There's going to be social stigmas and things like that.

I wouldn't care if medicine itself was opened up as a non-guildskill because my character would STILL go to the Madison and seek the aid of an actual physician over some rando guy trying to sell snake oil out on the street. (Please note: I don't want medicine to be opened up. I'm just making an example).

Everyone's RP is going to be different and everyone is responsible for their own RP and while I think this idea has some good points going for it (obviously if someone has an open wound in a swamp, it would get all kinds of RL nasty), I just thought I'd bring up my ownnnn and I hope this post was at least moderately coherent because I'm super tired.

[Puciek]

Housecall, hmm.... well most of the ailments don't require treat - so that's not a problem as they will remain unaffected. If they require treating - maybe it's time for some posh rooms in the Madison? Not only in lieu of this proposal but in general, to satisfy that RP? Then with this change, if there is a need of surgery doc could recommend doing it one of the posh rooms, or at home - but explaining that it comes with some risks, so the noble/upper gentry can decide if they care about the secrecy as much, or will the posh room privacy suffice.
We need something to gossip about too, like why is that noble lady getting treated in the private rooms every month or so, despite not having any visible wounds.

And yes, I fully agree that this should, and could, be achieved with RP. I would much prefer that way over any coded measures. But after talking with couple current physicians, and from memories of my own tour of duty at Madison (with pretty serious filters applied) there simply is very little to try to go on when trying to track down the black marketeers of medicine. The fact that some people pick it simple for that exact convenience doesn't help it at all. So there is very little RP hooks to try to shame them into it (or for example follow them to find who treats them) unless you've seen them hurt, and then, somehow, know for a fact that they were not treated at Madison. It's a very unrealistic thing to try to track icly on whole of the population, which also makes the application of social stigma problematic.

I am more than open to any alternatives that will put some risk to black marketeers.

[Kinaed]

Being time poor, I haven't read all of this (sorry), but the first line says anyone can be a physician. This is untrue, medicine, the skill connected to the treat command and all of the remedy recipes is a guildskill.

There are tangible benefits to mastering treat that make rank 36 inadequate compared to a higher skilled healer, like a reduced chance to make the wound worse and significantly increased healing times.

Physicians also should/may have preferential access to medical craft ingredients and quality healing facilities.

[Kinaed]

Being time poor, I haven't read all of this (sorry), but the first line says anyone can be a physician. This is untrue, medicine, the skill connected to the treat command and all of the remedy recipes is a guildskill.

There are tangible benefits to mastering treat that make rank 36 inadequate compared to a higher skilled healer, like a reduced chance to make the wound worse and significantly increased healing times.

Physicians also should/may have preferential access to medical craft ingredients and quality healing facilities.

This doesn't mean I'm against ideas in this space, just pointing out something that appears unknown.

[Puciek]

Being time poor, I haven't read all of this (sorry), but the first line says anyone can be a physician. This is untrue, medicine, the skill connected to the treat command and all of the remedy recipes is a guildskill.

There are tangible benefits to mastering treat that make rank 36 inadequate compared to a higher skilled healer, like a reduced chance to make the wound worse and significantly increased healing times.

Physicians also should/may have preferential access to medical craft ingredients and quality healing facilities.

This doesn't mean I'm against ideas in this space, just pointing out something that appears unknown.

While it is a guildskill, anyone can still pick it at level 1 to 36 in chargen (at expense of one guildskill slot). Actually, instead of guessing, would it be possible to produce a simple data: % of active players, not currently in physicians guild who have medicine skill? I think this would either prove that medicine is very popular skill to pick, or whether the problem is simple blew out of the proportion. My personal guess is that the % is pretty high, but I have absolutely no data to back it besides anecdotal evidence.

And while indeed having medicine at 36+ is highly beneficial, the self-sufficiency of 36 vs 0 is a major difference for combat/shady characters, and generally good enough.

[Voxumo]

Being time poor, I haven't read all of this (sorry), but the first line says anyone can be a physician. This is untrue, medicine, the skill connected to the treat command and all of the remedy recipes is a guildskill.

There are tangible benefits to mastering treat that make rank 36 inadequate compared to a higher skilled healer, like a reduced chance to make the wound worse and significantly increased healing times.

Physicians also should/may have preferential access to medical craft ingredients and quality healing facilities.

This doesn't mean I'm against ideas in this space, just pointing out something that appears unknown.

While it is a guildskill, anyone can still pick it at level 1 to 36 in chargen (at expense of one guildskill slot). Actually, instead of guessing, would it be possible to produce a simple data: % of active players, not currently in physicians guild who have medicine skill? I think this would either prove that medicine is very popular skill to pick, or whether the problem is simple blew out of the proportion. My personal guess is that the % is pretty high, but I have absolutely no data to back it besides anecdotal evidence.

And while indeed having medicine at 36+ is highly beneficial, the self-sufficiency of 36 vs 0 is a major difference for combat/shady characters, and generally good enough.

That would be interesting to see. I know back in the day, before I reached 15+characters, I used to always grab medicine in chargen.