Lithmorran and You

[Starstarfish]

I'd like to propose the following suggestion:

As was established during the last OOC meeting, thematically the large majority of characters should have at least a basic working knowledge of Lithmorran because literacy is a major interest of the Order so people can read the Erra Pater for themselves. This is a major thematic difference between our IC world and historical reality. As such, I feel like we should highlight this difference. Thematically people are taught first and foremost to read and write in Lithmorran because of the religious undertones of the teaching goals. Therefore if your character is literate (as most people should be) they should be able to read Lithmorran to at least some degree.

The IC mail system is a major way to push RP regardless of timezones and login times, as it can be asynchronous, and is thus a major RP venue. However, allowing people to remove Lithmorran entirely and still get/send IC mail sets this sort of reality where code and theme don't exactly match (IMHO at least.)

Further, trading in the ability to communicate and thus RP with the majority of other folks as a source of RPXP to use for things like ... combat skills seems kind of off if RP is ultimately our overall goal, IMHO.

As such, I'd like to recommend the minimum level in Lithmorran people should be able to set is 36.

People can RP what that means - you can RP not being familiar with Guild terms or terms outside of words from the Erra. You can RP needing other people to read for you. RP being a bad student, you can still RP what that skill level sort of means in your individual case. (Maybe your vocabulary is terrible but your handwriting is flawless, or visa versa.) So you can RP things, but there isn't the weird code/theme gap.

[Puciek]

I don't think this solves any actual problems (unless I am missing something) but potentially shuts down some RP as then there are places where reading erra patter may not be a common thing - look hillfolk.

So I am against as it doesn't try to solve an actual problem we are facing, but potentially blocks some concepts from happening.

[Starstarfish]

I don't think this solves any actual problems (unless I am missing something) but potentially shuts down some RP as then there are places where reading erra patter may not be a common thing - look hillfolk

Hillmen are not a default race you can set at chargen (to my understanding) as such, you already need staff interaction/approval to set up a Hillish app, as such that might be an exception to the rule. However, to my understanding basic literacy is a thing for every other race/culture in game.

People who roll in and say, "I've never read the Erra Pater" are arguably setting themselves up some IC difficulties that may or may not be a conscious choice. I think we should make IC difficulties more a legit choice than based on not being OOC aware.

So I am against as it doesn't try to solve an actual problem we are facing,

I've arguably had different RP experiences than yourself, but I can say the situation above has indeed kind of happened more than once to varying degrees.

[Puciek]

I am not disagreeing that there are illterate people on the grid, just that it isn't really a problem. There will always be the odd Jimmy who never made it to school, or timmy who was just incapable of learning or josh who lived in one of the very remote villages without a school. This RP has obvious downside as people will suspect heresy, but that's a choice.

[Starstarfish]

This RP has obvious downside as people will suspect heresy, but that's a choice.

That's sort of what I'm wondering though - do people realize that? Because the recent meeting says that's not as obvious as perhaps it should be. So if we don't want to change the code, maybe we want to make that more obvious in chargen somehow?

[Puciek]

That seems like a good idea! Also they usually get that pointed out while way into cyans, some get this fixed, some don't.

[kipperialovskii]

This is something that I've actually encountered on-grid.

It seems that whenever I make mention over tells, or assisting help-files, most of the non-savage players who choose illiteracy are actually not in the know of how rigid the teaching of lithmorran is. In Farin, which has the only instances of illiteracy mentioned in the civilized races due to serf and slave population still consider their own language 'informal' compared to Lithmorran, and choose to speak that, over their native tongue.

This would be something that would be player-enforceable if we had clergy (Because acolytes handle this)-- But we currently have none to speak of. Up until recently, even, it was seen by the general public more on the like of a quirk, than something to mistrust.

The only thing I have to add to this, is that there are current, and past examples of people trying to translate standard dark fantasy to TI, making that slip-up. To me, it seems like an OOC issue, which strikes me often as strange with the amount of frequency it happens in, and who it happens to. It's not just freemen, mind. --Even in remote towns, they would have the communal Erra Pater. Meaning that -someone- has to read, and at least teach it. This is what makes full illiteracy (Or in the case of highborn, questionable fluency) questionable at best, heretical at worst depending on circumstance.

In order for this rather important part of theme to be more in the public eye, however, we would need a clergy, or people capable of allowing RP to happen surrounding it.

... I mean, all it takes is for an Inquisitor to put the fear of the Lord in you, to ensure your continued survival via reading. Conflict RP.

[kipperialovskii]

My suggestion, sorry, is to change the warning to chargen to rather than a communication issue, to a theme/pious issue that may have your character distrusted by people, or consistently questioned by the Clergy.

[Zeita]

I concur with this suggestion (although perhaps setting it to 25 Lithmorran). If if it is expected as part of theme, give this for free (xp-wise) as a non removable skill. Hillmen, Toroshiro(j/k), Charali or Daravi (and others by special request) could ask to have their Lithmorran set at 0, if they can justify it.

The church and the crown have long worked to force Lithmorran culture and language down the throats of the duchies and it is a sensible lingua franca for matters beyond religion as well (ie, at the ducal courts and in trade). Look at the historical examples, such as English overlordship in Ireland and elsewhere.

To go with this, I think that the theme files need to be tightened up in this regard.