Death XP and New Players

[Starstarfish]

I mean... Why should a cyan get advanced to the same "level" as me when I have put in four years of dedication to this game playing GLs for the vast majority of it? I don't think it would attract new players.

I don't think anyone is saying that cyans should be advanced to the "same" level of older players. However, with the introduction of assets, there are more requirements for spending RPXP up front than their used to be.

That might not be the most fun thing to play for a lot of people, but then neither is being penniless.

The difficulty also is people starting/staying penniless also leads to others being penniless as they don't have the money to spend on grid. Merchants sell less and get bored. It can lead to a feeling of stagnation as a crafter character who doesn't get to sell things.

We also no longer have the Auction House as a way for new players to more cheaply furnish or dress themselves.

Having a roster job asset can help in the long-run too.

I'd argue that something helpful here would be for Guilds to be able to control and assign roster jobs that arguably would be within their area of control to present off-camera tasks those people are doing. Assign/create a certain number per Guild. This would also give various places a point of contact and to encourage and extra venue of RP. A roster job can be an amazing source of RP, and I allowing people to do both would create some more natural RP scenarios.

For characters that join guilds, I think guildleaders could consider actively helping them acquire an asset, or at least using guildpay to pay out an good-performing asset's worth of salary weekly.

Guilds unfortunately do not make the income to be able to buy a 1,000 silver asset for every new member, let alone a higher one.

[Kinaed]

I'm pro people having to make meaningful choices on set-up, and am not feeling heavily swayed to increase bonus XP, etc.

Most guilds are actually sitting on quite a lot of silver and probably could be financing some nice things for their folk. No reason not to spend they money, otherwise the guild just hits their cap and can no longer accumulate. Not saying that's a solution to this 'perceived' problem, but the implication that guilds are physically unable to purchase assets for their members well in excess of the speed in which they historically take on new members is generally incorrect (with some exceptions).

[Voxumo]

Most guilds are actually sitting on quite a lot of silver and probably could be financing some nice things for their folk. No reason not to spend they money, otherwise the guild just hits their cap and can no longer accumulate. Not saying that's a solution to this 'perceived' problem, but the implication that guilds are physically unable to purchase assets for their members well in excess of the speed in which they historically take on new members is generally incorrect (with some exceptions).

Sits on the street corner, with his mug that reads '#1 Tenebrae', rattling it at passersbys "Change sir? Spare some change?"

(Sorry, I know this doesn't add to the conversation, I just felt like a laugh)

[LonelyNeptune]

Given that many players are not part of a guild, I think it is unrealistic to expect newbies to be funded by a guild.

Nor is it strictly any guild's responsibility to artificially fund a newbie's assets in the absence of game balance.

[Starstarfish]

Not saying that's a solution to this 'perceived' problem, but the implication that guilds are physically unable to purchase assets for their members well in excess of the speed in which they historically take on new members is generally incorrect (with some exceptions).

If the idea is that Guilds should buy their people assets to support incomes, what that means is that we are transferring people's ability to be responsible for their own success and wealth (via purchase silver) to relying on other people. And not just other people IC but arguably other people OOCly as well. And relying on other people at a lot of levels. Relying on other people in the Guild being active and voting metrics properly so their Guild makes silver to make these purchases. Continuing to rely on the same so that asset makes money.

I don't think we'd allow that because the metrics that an asset CAN be attached to are based on the representation across the board (eg, we don't want every merchant hooking up with economics). In chargen, what's available is directly dictated by the system based on what is not over-represented.

So, if Guilds were to buy their people assets, if one doesn't want all for example, Merchants supporting Economics from a Guild-purchase asset, what is the imagined scenario?

[Taunya]

I'm pro people having to make meaningful choices on set-up, and am not feeling heavily swayed to increase bonus XP, etc.

That's fair, but assets have greatly added to the learning curve of an already rather complicated game, and I think it could be affecting player retention. It's rather more difficult for a new player to create a fun character now that you have to choose so closely between money or skills, with little compromise between. I'll see about writing up a guide on viable character setups, and hopefully some points can be addressed in the upcoming chargen redesign that I think was mentioned recently.

If the idea is that Guilds should buy their people assets to support incomes, what that means is that we are transferring people's ability to be responsible for their own success and wealth (via purchase silver) to relying on other people. And not just other people IC but arguably other people OOCly as well. And relying on other people at a lot of levels. Relying on other people in the Guild being active and voting metrics properly so their Guild makes silver to make these purchases. Continuing to rely on the same so that asset makes money.
...
So, if Guilds were to buy their people assets, if one doesn't want all for example, Merchants supporting Economics from a Guild-purchase asset, what is the imagined scenario?

Well, I think interdependence is a good thing. That's what an economy should be, after all. The more that's encouraged, the better things might go.

If I were a GL, I'd gpay 75 silver weekly for members, as much as an average tier 1 asset, and after say, 3 OOC months, offer to purchase them a tier 2 asset instead, with OOC weekly dues of perhaps 20 silver, and a stipulation that one of the resource slots be used for something that the guild needs, that guild members could get it from them at no mark-up.
If they if they skip town after, well, that could lead to some fun RP for the reeves. Or the brotherhood, depending.

[Kuzco]

75s per member? Tier 2 assets?
Maybe you don't quite grasp the income per week that some guilds have xD

[The_Last_Good_Dragon]

While I hope to express more detailed thoughts later, I'd like to chime in and say that I think something should be done to make it a bit easier on new characters, especially brand-new characters with no accumulated free-xp to boost their character. And I think that anyone who argues that the new player experience is without flaws that can be fixed, or that in making the game a bit easier or nicer or attractive for new players would somehow be unfair to veterans are being absolutely ridiculous — the game isn't about "having more than others" it's about creating fun storylines and characters and interactions.

I'm a big fan of doubling the first X amount of experience and death experience that ENTIRELY brand new players on ENTIRELY brand new accounts accumulate. It could be managed in the same space as the Award Demon already gives for mails/thoughts, to the tune of:

Code: Select all

For recent role-play, you have been awarded 750 bonus death XP as a first-character bonus. This bonus will end when 30,000 xp has been earned by the account.

[Starstarfish]

If I were a GL, I'd gpay 75 silver weekly for members, as much as an average tier 1 asset, and after say, 3 OOC months, offer to purchase them a tier 2 asset instead, with OOC weekly dues of perhaps 20 silver, and a stipulation that one of the resource slots be used for something that the guild needs, that guild members could get it from them at no mark-up.
If they if they skip town after, well, that could lead to some fun RP for the reeves. Or the brotherhood, depending.

I'd be curious if that's within policy. As you can't RPA to find out about another person's assets, is it within policy to set demands/expectations on how other people use them? (Or is that sort of like support, where that's a no-no.) Could you indeed start an IC thing on money back from a "stolen" asset?

At the moment though, giving people silver through the banking system seems a more secure way to get RP if something goes "wrong" than with assets. Though that might be entirely a perspective thing.

[Kinaed]

Giving new players an XP bonus is essentially giving everyone an XP bonus. I don't think people ever start a game expecting to have everything up front, and I'm not seeing many actual new players in this thread talking about the new player experience. As it is, we know that people have to make choices in chargen, and that is intentional. People who have earned a lot of XP and have a buffer have more choice, and hats off to them for earning that privilege.

Regarding guilds doing stuff for their members, making loans, etc - I'm not sure how policy would be invoked or be an issue. I'd think those things could or would play out as they could/would in real life.

Note: I never said that the guilds should step in as a solution to this perceived 'problem', rather, I pointed out that they can generally *afford* to do so. In particular, guilds get more silver per every active member, based on their relative City Metric, so if your guild keeps your metric above 75, then yeah, the guild can give out 75 silver per week, because that's what the guild earns just for having an active representative in game.