Log of OOC meeting 6/2/2018

[Voxumo]

Kinaed queries, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"


Lethanavir states, "Nuggets"

Empena has lost link.
Empena has reconnected.


Asvaldr states, "I have a topic I'd like to raise"


Prisca says, "I've got something minor"


Empena states, "I have a topic I'd like to raise."

Kinaed claims to Asvaldr, "Got you. Please pre-type your topic so you can introduce it."


Cee says, "Two small things for me."

Kinaed claims to Prisca and Empena, "Got you."


Edwin claims, "As usual I have nothing. I just like playing with you all."

Kinaed says to Cee, "Got you."


Kinaed states, "If you have a topic, please pre-write it for quick introduction when called upon."

Edwin begins to count their money.


Prisca nods.


Kinaed says, "Sorry, recieving some tells."

Lethanavir wears full leather sleeves crisscrossed with tooled thorn designs on her arms.

Azarial has transferred a statuesque gentrywoman with warm gold-brown eyes.  [OOC]


Kinaed claims, "Okay, kicking off today's Staff Update - last week, I'm sure I did *something* worthwhile, but I can't think of it. This week, I have jail automation and updating the forums on my plate."


Kinaed states, "That's all for me, so I'll kick it over to Azarial."


Ivar wonders, "Question about that?"


Azarial states, "I have been poking at the bugs board, and trying to whittle down my upcoming polca collection.  I'm not sure what all was this week or not, having changed the enws file."


Ivar wonders, "How is jail automation going? It's been your weekly thing for quite a long while now. Have there been some snags with it, or is it more of a brainstorming thing currently on how to handle it?"

Azarial has transferred Theia.  [OOC]


Kinaed says, "Mostly stalled because I'm too lazy to write up what I wrote in a notebook into a spec."

A statuesque gentrywoman with warm gold-brown eyes has been transferred out by Temi.  [OOC]

Farra starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Theia states, "Was going to say, whatever I did, I didn't mean to do it "


Kinaed states, "It's not hard, it just has several canned responses for auto messages on the pboard."


Ivar says, "Aha, that's good to know."

Farra finishes her note.


Kinaed trails off, "Okay, let's help Az out... "


Kinaed claims, "We have a new void spell."


Kinaed says, "HELP PRICE and shops have been changed so that setting prices goes on the object, not in the drop syntax."


Ivar states, "Huh, neat."


Theia claims, "Fancy"


Kinaed states, "I'd recommend a quick look at HELP MAY2018 for anyone who hasn't noticed recent changes and wants a summary."


Farra states, "Thank christ."


Prisca claims, "I'm loving it"


Ivar states, "That's a nice quality of life change for anyone with fairly well stocked shops."


Azarial states, "Christ does not have dev perms"


Farra claims, "JESUS BE PRAISED."

Kinaed muses to Azarial, "Anything else to add?"

Farra throws her hands up in the air.


Azarial claims, "Not that I can think of."

Kinaed claims to Farra, "Dav."


Ivar claims, "DEMON QUEEN BE PR....I mean. Uh."


Asvaldr chuckles


Kiryn questions, "How will that effect objects that have already been dropped? Will their prices need to be reset?"

Kinaed says to Temi, "You're up. "


Azarial states, "But like I said, i've been in code all day."


Azarial says, "Prices should remain as set"


Azarial says, "Where prices were stored was not changed.  how theyu were stored was"


Farra says, "Oh, I found out there's a 'Harmon' street like 2 blocks down from where I live."

Prisca states to Kiryn, "Seems they're still set fine, and dropping with price still works for the time being at least"

Kinaed grins at Farra.


Kiryn claims, "Oh thank vodka. Was not looking forward to having to take *that* walkabout later."


Farra claims, "So whoever said Farra is Dav with breasts, I can go steal that sign and hang it up above my computer."


Temi claims, "Okay... working on plot stuff, trying to nudge players towards making some progress on things, and letter some other players wrap things up."

Kinaed says to Farra, "Not steal it and mail it to Australia as a bribe? Hmm, interesting choice."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi states, "I think our current plan besides continuing slowly on rseponding to things is to try to hold a big group meeting with the Queen."

Farra starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)


Temi says, "And I'm at my parents' helping out my mom a few more days, but should be back to normal early next week"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Kinaed says, "Thanks for coming to the OOC Chat today, given."

Farra finishes her note.


Kinaed wonders, "Any questions from players about any of the Staff Updates before we move on to the next item in our agenda?"


Prisca queries, "Any word on a coronation event yet?"

Kiryn claims to Temi, "You may want to arrange to have everyone stripsearched before that meeting with the queen. apparently folks like sneaking in weapons."

Lethanavir stops using full leather sleeves crisscrossed with tooled thorn designs.


Theia muses, "Wait... Farra is Dav with Breasts?"


Theia asks, "Farra has breasts?"


Empena says, "Mine is my topic, so not sure if you want me to bring that up now."

Kinaed says to Theia, "Surprise."

Drudwyn stops using a pair of close fitting woodsman hose with a flecked design.

Theia muses to Kinaed, "Right?"

Kinaed states to Empena, "Hold onto it."

Farra pontificates to Theia, "I'll use half my emote to describe how Farra is an App: 5 without makeup if we ever meet up!"

Temi says to Kiryn, "We will or we won't."


Empena queries, "Also, why did everyone come to this meeting without their pants on, did I miss the memo?"


Edwin flagellates himself.

Kiryn states, "I don't think I've gone an entire session without some kind of RP this week. Kind of awesome."


Lethanavir states, "I always love the rp, you don't even have to ask."


Farra states, "I'm hopefully settled in from hectic few weeks of helping family out. I've had one experience that kind of rankles me, but I'm not going to voice that here -- otherwise, hope to get back into the swing of things this upcoming week. Absolutely hafta handle a Seeker or Two  -- and on that topic, anyone wanting to get involved with the large-scale RP can consider rolling a Reeve or Priest with interest in becoming an Inquisitor. Anyone interested in the latter can talk to me OOCly and we can discuss a concept that might get stream-lined to an Inquisitor post."

Kinaed says to Cee, "Sure. "


Asvaldr curses as his internet decides to give out...


Edwin claims, "I would play an Inquisitor. I just don't want to screw things up."


Farra claims, "If you want to get involved otherwise, contacting GLs can be a great start -- if one doesn't seem as responsive, try another; Lithmore is more enjoyable with powerful friends."

Farra grins at Edwin.


Kinaed claims, "Also a quick reminder to GLs that there are no rules that people brought into the fold have to start out at the lowest rank, particularly if they come in as gentry or nobility."

Farra declares to Edwin, "But that's half the fun!"


Theia says, "Hey hey... I'm perfectly in the middle of things as a Physician."


Edwin claims, "No really, I start barfights. XD"


Theia claims, "Everyone stubs their toe eventually."


Kiryn pontificates, "Master craftsman for everyone!"

Kiryn grins.


Lethanavir claims, "He does."

Farra pontificates to Edwin, "Inquisitors start Holy Barfights!"


Drudwyn says, "I KICK ARSE FOR THE LORD"

Farra states to Drudwyn, "No u don't."


Empena smirks over at Farra, "We had a bar fight once."


Asvaldr would like to point out RP for me the last few weeks have been mighty fun, especially with my rp related to the Tenebrae


Drudwyn states, "I didn't say which lord"


Farra won that one, iirc.

Kiryn says to Farra, "Be honest. Farra just stares them to death."

Kinaed smiles.


Edwin claims, "I wouldn't make a badass Inquisitor. At least not in the... beating people up way."


Theia declares, "Kinaed! I took advantage of that as a Gentry! I joined as an Orderly instead of a Student! "


Theia happy dances.


Kinaed does two thumbs up to Theia. 


Prisca still gets to boss gentry orderlies around, so is happy enough.

Farra claims to Kiryn, "Has happened before."


Kinaed questions, "Anything going on in game that's shitting people that they want staff to know about?"


Theia claims, "For now."


Lethanavir says, "I'm still waiting for things to happen with mu character,"


Kinaed claims, ".. that isn't already a topic "


Theia trails off, "One day though..."


Theia claims, "One day."


Lethanavir declares, "OOOO I have something!"

Kinaed muses to Lethanavir, "Yes?"


Kiryn bosses Prisca around on principle.

Theia says to Kiryn, "Doesn't work for me."

Asvaldr sneezes loudly.


Prisca wonders, "I'm kind of bugged by tells not coming through when you're POLCA'd. can we get a toggle for receiving tells while working on stuff?"


Lethanavir wonders, "While I was sparring with Edwin, I'm supposed to be able to look at my opponent's weapons and defence right?"

Kinaed claims to Prisca, "That's been added to Az's plate to create that toggle."

Calanthe says to Lethanavir, "Yes, via 'combat.'"


Prisca says, "Oh, good"

Kiryn claims to Theia, "That's your problem."

Kiryn grins.


Lethanavir states, "Yeah, It doesn't work for me"

Kinaed states to Lethanavir, "You can look at them  directly to see their weapon and whatnot, otherwise you have to use the combat to get some peripheral information."


Edwin says, "WHAT WEAPONS!? EDWIN PUNCHES THINGS."


Safir claims, "It's on the top part of combat. "


Lethanavir claims, "I tried it, spammed it. Didn't work."

Kinaed says to Lethanavir, "Oh,  okay. I'll have a staff member have a look after OOC Chat."


Lethanavir says, "Thanks"

Kinaed claims to Lethanavir, "Thanks for letting us know."


Theia says, "I can vouch for that."


Theia claims, "Edwin does indeed punch things."


Kinaed exclaims, "Okay, Player Topics! Asvaldr, you're up!"

[Taunya]

Voxumo had some technical difficulties with the forums, so filling in the rest:

Lethanavir states, "Edwin punched my face in so thanks for that."

Farra muses to Prisca, "Do they not buffer with 'tell log'?"

Azarial says, "Logs with problems helps quite a bit"

Asvaldr trails off, "Thankfully I just finished writing it... Please wait till I give the thumbs up as this is a multiple pose topic"

Asvaldr clears throat "So the topic I wished to raise is my concern regarding the most recent news announced upon log in. The ability for the Seneschal to expulse non-entrenched GLs. I must admit the implications of this terrified me a bit when I logged in as the Tenebrae. Now if I'm reading it right, it reads to me as that the Seneschal can oust any guildleader they so please regardless of their approval as long as they are not entrenched. I have several issues with this. Firstly, I have to wonder why this was added? No Seneschal has attempted to use their gambit power yet, so why are we upping that power? I mean it would really make them a force to be feared, but well as I'm going to point out, it seems like it would be a fairly unbalanced system."

Asvaldr states, "Now, why do I say it's unbalanced? Well let's say it was used to expulse say a really liked Grand Magnate. Icly and oocly people might argue it being an abuse of power, and ic reprecussions could be sought... However if they expulse a a tenebrae or sapiente, sure people may oocly argue it, but icly there would be reason for folks to argue it, as whose going to argue for the Tenebrae without making themselves a target for reeves? All it will take is one goody two-shoe seneschal and boom, Tenebri and Sapientes will be an even more endangered species."

Prisca states to Farra, "They go straight to buffer without displaying, making them easy to miss."

Asvaldr states, "Now you might be saying that's why they can't oust entrenched GLs... However the support is system is so wonky that it isn't any kind of reassurance. I've been playing Tenebrae for 3 months now, and I only recently got entrenched ranking. And let me say, I've certainly been trying to get support and have had steady support this whole time, with no subverts... yet remained at neutral for way too long. However even when I did reach entrenched, it lasted about oh... 3 or 4 days, then went back down with no visible changes to my support, and no subversions at all. I don't understand how the support system works, and sometimes it looks like it's just a throw of the dice."

Asvaldr swears this is the last paragraph "Honestly, at least with the prior gambit system, if the guildmembers of the GLs guild wanted to keep them around, they could actively work against the gambit. There was a way to counter 'abusive' use of the seneschal's power in that regard." he sighs "Honestly just the possibility of what could occur with the update scares me as the Tenebrae, being the only 'Villian' gl."

Asvaldr gives the thumbs up

Ivar claims, "They aren't able to just espel them. "

Ivar claims, "It initiates a gambit vote."

Farra says, "Gambits do not remove GLs, they are the start of the process."

Asvaldr asks, "Did no one read the update upon log in?"

Kinaed claims, "A moment while I read."

Kinaed says to Asvaldr, "Looks like a no. :)"

Ivar states, "And it's kind've hard for them to gambit the Tenebrae, considering it's a hidden guild."

Farra states, "Ah, I see -- if that's the case, I think that's a bit ridiculous, yes."

Farra states, "Esp. with non-Crown GLs (Order Guild)."

Azarial claims, "The seneschal cannot find the tenebrae to oust them"

Edwin says, "Technically Theia... Edwin headbutted that thing. <.<"

Ivar asks, "Wot. They can just fully remove a guildleader with a single command?"

Azarial says, "Not that the tenebrae follows the laws"

Theia says, "Ah."

Asvaldr claims to Azarial, "I assumed just using the title would work for the code"

Kinaed states to Azarial, "We probably should make it not include covert guilds."

Kinaed claims, "But let's discuss that as a staff talking point."

Empena questions, "This was also my topic, so can I add my own concerns here?"

Cee wonders, "Surely this means he could oust the Magnus too?"

Cee states, "That'd be funny."

Asvaldr states, "Which doesn't exist"

Empena claims, "There no longer is a Manus."

Kinaed states, "As for why this change came into being - yes, it was to up the power of the Seneschal role and make them appropriately, ICly scary."

Ivar states, "I mean, I guess if the Seneschal is going in the direction I think it's going in, it makes sense thematically"

Cee claims, "Big rip"

Temi states, "I believe we already added the Grand Inquisitor as an exception as they don't answer to secular authority"

Theia states, "I would laugh so hard if the Manus a thing and the Rubeus got ousted because they weren't entrenched"

Drudwyn claims, "... or is there"

Kinaed nods at Ivar.

Farra nods at Temi.

Kinaed asks of Temi, "Did we announce this without linking it to the IC changes yet?"

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Prisca claims, "Looks like it."

Temi claims, "I think it got added to the news"

Kinaed says, "Oh dear, this was supposed to link to an IC Event. Oh well."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Ivar claims, "But, admittedly, as a player, there are few players in the game who I trust can OOCly handle that kind of ability in an adult manner."

Farra states, "I'd be generally fine if it's not for Order or Covert -- however, I guess I'll note that a Seneschal who acts against GLs without the support of other Great Lords might find themselves arrested or out-of-office quickly."

Ivar says, "Without doing it out of the sake of a tantrum."

Farra nods in agreement with Ivar.

Temi states to Kinaed, "Yeah, we've been planning on this coming up in a big announcement any time now"

Kinaed says, "I don't think a Seneschal who did that would last long since they too can be ousted via gambit."

Temi says, "But things have been a bit crazy for me"

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Farra says, "Ie, Farra's a known supporter of the Madison. A seneschal who outsted a Prime who, while not necessarily well-loved, was great at his/her job, might find Knights on their doorstep for a 'chat'."

Farra nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Temi claims, "And honestly, the Justiciar and the Grand Inquisitor both have the power to remove a GL from leadership now as is"

Kinaed says, "I wasn't expecting it to get added to news at this time given that we haven't finished a few things there though, and I thought we discussed the rollout specifically around this one."

Temi claims, "It just also results in the loss of the character entirely"

Safir has lost link.
Safir has reconnected.

Prisca states, "As does the tenebrae, by other means."

Ivar states to Farra, "Would hope the Justiciar was on board with that too, since that'd be a rather secular action."

Asvaldr trails off to Farra, "But that really doesn't do much to restore a GL who might have been doing good for their guild, but irked the seneschal. And I doubt said character could just be restored as GL... seems a bit... redudant"

Theia says, "Welcome back Safir"

Farra exclaims to Ivar, "I Am The Law!"

Farra froths at the mouth.

Kinaed trails off, "Interestingly enough, Empena just told me this relates to or is her topic as well, so if you don't mind my allowing her to run her thoughts quickly..."

Kinaed says, "Prisca, I'll pull her ahead of you in the queue for the sake of cohesion."

Empena questions, "I admit that the latest update about the Seneschal power has me ... more than a bit concerned. Further that it is combined with the new update that all "supports" must now be staff approved. I have a number of reasons this concerns me:
 - Are we going to have an updated list or matrix of what is required for supports to be acceptable?
2 - The support system is something that speaking with even other GLs, no one seems to fully understand. And there is already a "gamey" aspect to it wherein one can go below Entrenched for reasons like ... someone's connection with you just dropped because you didn't roleplay in a room as often with them even if you are indeed regularly in contact them via things like mail. Indeed, given the vastly different timezones of some of our GLs, mail is one of the mail RP venues and that mail between people doesn't count as "RP contact" for support is ... a bit off.
3 - We currently do not have 2nd GLs for half of the Guilds because there aren't the people seemingly willing and/or able to do that. I have the serious concern that allowing even more turnover will produce a situation that quickly becomes unteneable. Turnover might be fun for the person who gets someone else fired. It is not fun for lower level Guildmembers who constantly have to migrate through transitions.
4 - What will be the requirements for Seneschals to just randomly boot Guildleaders who are at "Loved" or even "Approved" versus at hated? What will be the cnotes or reasoning this? Why this versus allowing them to start a Gambit? Will there be a requirement of Familiarity or even recent RP with the other person in question to start this? Or can one never RP with or interact with a GL and just watch the Guildleader board to kick this off?"

Prisca says, "No worries."

Asvaldr says, "Wait? All supports must be staff approved? That's news to me."

Kinaed states, "It may be appropriate for staff to have the Seneschal oustings go into our request queue for approval as well."

Farra nods in agreement.

Ivar ponders, "I suppose staff approving support makes sense since support is gonna be a huge thing with noble projects."

Asvaldr states, "I think that would help alleviate the concern"

Ivar claims, "It also keeps players from just supporting their buddy without any real interaction on said characters."

Edwin states, "I don't want to be GL. <.<"

Kinaed says, "As for all of the trepidation - I think that it's appropriate to fear the Seneschal given some IC changes going on. I'm just reluctant to spill them now because they were supposed to happen as part of an IC Event."

Empena says, "This isn't IC fear, it's OOC fear. It's OOC fear that we already have a shaky situation having enough people to want to play GLs."

Ivar claims, "I'm fine waiting for the details, personally."

Lethanavir muses, "How many people can you support?"

Kinaed claims, "The support issue is due to a large set of supports coming through with reasons that didn't appear IC, and we don't generally proactively monitor them, so we changed it."

Farra states, "If there is going to be more meaningful power for a Seneschal, I'd also like to suggest that it be something where cyans / people under 50 RP hours can't run for it. If it's meant to be someone the city leaders answer to, having it be some random nobody who just created kind of undermines that."

Edwin claims, "That's alright. Grand Chief Zash is going to be Seneschal."

Farra nods.

Kinaed claims, "So we can contact people throwing support for OOC reasons and ask them to fix it."

Empena muses, "So can the helpfile for support can examples of what are good and not good reasons?"

Lethanavir says, "We need Zash as the king not Seneschal. His dung will save us all."

Asvaldr claims, "Admittingly, knowing that the Tenebrae won't be able to be expulsed by the seneschal kind of alleviates my concern. It's tough leading the only 'Villian' guild"

Kinaed states to Empena, "Probably."

Ivar states, "Tbh, I kind've feel Seneschal should only be filled by Nobles."

Edwin states, "I agree."

Temi nods at Ivar.

Calanthe asks, "I'd like to ask if there's something to be done to alleviate OOC concerns, generally?"

Farra nods.

Temi claims, "We thought that too."

Temi says, "Unfortunately, we don't think we can support it."

Farra states, "I think nobles or GL."

Edwin claims, "Edwin ab Valen. Duke of Amhurst. Seneschal. ^_^"

Farra says, "But an established gentry makes sense, too. Freemen, I think less so."

Temi claims to Calanthe, "Let people live with it and see that the world does not fall down."

Edwin says, "Sorry, Baron."

Kinaed claims to Ivar, "We'd like it to be that way, but we don't have enough noble population to ensure that, so we're going to have to compromise."

Ivar claims, "Disagree with GL since the Gls would be leaving their position to do it"

Calanthe says, "I like leaving the option open for anyone with the moxie to obtain it."

Lethanavir states, "Edwin is a dumb butt."

Safir says, "I also like leaving it open and less restrictive.  It's hard enough to get GLs as it is. "

Edwin states, "He is of.... average intelligence and wisdom."

Calanthe claims, "I think it's thematically appropriate that there's an assumption it will be a noble, guildleader or gentry person."

Empena says, "I sort of feel like the entire drive is for all GL positions to be noble with noble projects, which ... worked better when you could earn titles ICly."

Prisca states to Calanthe, "It's made for some intrigue thus far, though it does sort of feel like a joke after a while"

Farra states, "I think I'd be a lot more comfortable just requiring it to be an established character, rather than a cyan / someone with less than 50 RP Hours."

Lethanavir says, "Below average"

Theia says, "My voice doesn't really count for much here, i've only recently come back after nearly a year away... however. For Seneschal, I would recommend Gentry and Nobility for the role."

Theia states, "Or Freemen with enough connections to be considered for Gentry(AKA damn near never)"

Farra claims to Prisca, "It's turned into a bit of a meme; we haven't had an effective seneschal since I came back in November."

Calanthe queries, "Is it enough to support that IC with your characters versus hard coding it?"

Temi says, "We're upping the power of the seneschal so that people feel that they can actually effectively do things with it."

Theia states, "If a Freemen gets enough IC support to break away from their station in life and become Gentry. I feel that is earning Seneschal."

Asvaldr has lost link.
Asvaldr has reconnected.

Safir states to Farra, "People create characters to take over guilds and take on all sorts of important roles, I don't see the problem with them creating for this role.  "

Farra says, "I have to say my eyes roll a bit to hear that people 'can't do things' with the Seneschal role; I've heard the same things about the Grand Inquisitor role."

Azarial says, "If you have the gold to spend, you can become gentry--as long as you are not a babarian, filthy or otehrwise"

Ivar says, "I'm just gonna put this out there."

Theia says, "Upping the power of Seneschal is fine, I see no problem with it if you make it so the Ousting's have a check and balance."

Ivar claims, "The comment regarding 'haven't had an effective seneschal' is kind of offputting to me as a player. It's an OOC attempt to smack the player that just played Seneschal."

Cee pontificates, "I'm new. But perhaps people are too scared to take risks with Seneschal/grand Inq because they worked so hard to get there. Risk taking -is- the best RP after all, give it a shot!"

Ivar states, "And that attitude shouldn't be tolerated."

Kinaed nods at Ivar.

Edwin states, "I do lots of things... with no importance whatsoever to my role."

Theia says, ""Seneschal can oust any non-Order or Hidden GL. Their Ousting choice 'MUST' be Staff approved.""

Edwin states, "I'm just saying."

Theia states, "Bam"

Empena says, "Giving people more coded power over people won't automatically create gravitas for people who take the role, that's giving people coded power over people to make up for what they can't manage with RP."

Kinaed states, "I agree, if anything, I've felt pretty bad for every Seneschal we've had."

Theia claims, "They have super power, but they still have checks and balances."

Calanthe states, "I won't pretend I'm never influenced by OOC thoughts and feelings on something in game, but I tend to be reluctant where code enforcement is added to things that could and should be handled IC."

Farra states to Ivar, "I thoroughly enjoyed much of my RP with Justin; but ultimately he had a single event planned and canceled it and never changed metrics that the Council is generally seen as responsible for."

Temi claims, "I don't think we've had any seneschals do an actively bad job, except for the ones that drop off the face of the urth."

Kinaed says to Empena, "Well, the Seneschal role is unique in that it requires RP to achieve and making the necessary connections to get there."

Temi states, "But we have had many frustrated seneschals"

Kinaed claims, "If anything, I think it's more IC than how many GLs are appointed, and I like that."

Kinaed nods at Temi.
Ivar says to Farra, "Whatever your reasons may be, it doesn't constitute criticizing them in an OOC forum."

Farra states, "It's not a dig. It's an observation. Hopefully the changes will affect it, but I don't think the Seneschal's power-sphere is why we haven't had Seneschals that have found RP easily."

Farra nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Asvaldr claims to Farra, "To be fair Farra, Justin also had loads of ooc shit that happened during his time as Seneschal that would offput anyone in the position"

Cee claims, "I'm with Calanthe on this. If you're in that role, you theoretically should be able to RP by pressuring guild members into ousting the GL the Sen wants out. A command does kind of remove the aspect of RP from this."

Theia says, "As a side note... Making support require Staff approval. I'm not sure how I feel about that really."

Farra claims, "I'm on-board with the Staff-approval support thing."

Farra exclaims, "Fwiw!"

Prisca states, "I don't mind it."

Cee states, "Rather than pressing the big kill button. Staff approval support is fine by me, if they can handle the workload."

Ivar claims, "I don't mind a bit more oversight so long as it's done in a timely fashion."

Calanthe nods in agreement with Cee.

Ivar states, "And doesn't involve having to wait a while for it to go through."

Lethanavir wears full leather sleeves crisscrossed with tooled thorn designs on her arms.

Farra muses, "A guild who had their loved GL removed can turn towards other methods of getting them re-instated. Like just voting them back in, yes?"

Calanthe nods at Farra.

Theia muses, "I supported someone recently because they asked for it when I had the ability to and decided I could help. If it needs to be staff approved later what would be a reason to 'not' support someone?"

Asvaldr queries to Farra, "But doesn't that defeat the purpose of ousting them in the first place?"

Farra says, "'The Seneschal says our PL can't be PL. We say we're not accepting anyone else; down with the Seneschal -- Hey Order/Reeves, go mind your man.'"

Empena queries, "Right, because ... what if you go below Entrenched because staff didn't approve your support in time?"

Cee claims, "@Theia if your character doesn't want to."

Edwin says, "I suppose I'm not entirely certain what powers a seneschal should have over city guilds."

Azarial states, "Gl ratings are not instantly updated"

Kinaed states, "The Seneschal will be in a position that such power is entirely thematic after some IC stuff happens."

Cee claims, "Perhaps, rather than getting scared at this new power, we should see how it goes for a bit, first. None of us have seen what it's like in game yet, or what hte IC reason for it being in game is yet."

Theia wonders, "That's the thing Cee, if my character wants to support someone and they try to and staff reject it for some reason, I can't really do anything about it can I?"

Ivar nods to Kinaed. 

Farra states to Asvaldr, "Perhaps; just the fear that a Seneschal can press a kill-button shouldn't be too high if they don't do RP to undermine that person first."

Calanthe queries, "Agreed, Cee. Can we try it and see?"

Kinaed states, "I think people will just have to accept that it's the new world order to have a character in game that can do that for the time being."

Cee says, "Maybe discuss this next week when w know better."

Edwin says, "I agree."

Ivar states, "So uh"

Edwin claims, "Try it, you might like it."

Azarial says, "You can fix your reasoning and repost."

Prisca says, "Anything else on this topic? we've still got some other topics to get to."

Ivar questions, "Is it appropriate to ask what kind of timeframe we're looking at for progression on the plot to see said change?"

Kinaed says to Farra, "A kill button is a PC death, not a 'I won't let you continue on this political path'."

Calanthe says, "Staff has always been responsive and we're collectively capable of providing constructive feedback if something isn't working."

Farra nods in agreement with Kinaed.

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.

Cee claims, "This game -isn't- meant to be fair. Nobles shit all over freemen. Now there's just someone who shits on nobles."

Theia states, "Hey."

Asvaldr trails off to Farra, "True... my fear came from the fact I play the Tenebrae... Obviously a bit different than playing a 'lawful' gl"

Cee pontificates, "By being unfair, it makes the moment when you beat the difficult odds very memoerable!"

Theia says, "No noble ever really shit all over my freeman."

Theia states, "He lived a long and healthy life."

Theia states, "Kinda"

Edwin says, "I get shit on... all the time. Which is fine <.<"

Theia asks, "What's considered long and healthy again?"

Calanthe states to Theia, "30."

Farra claims to Asvaldr, "I think it's been said that the GI and covert guilds will be exempt from that Seneschal's outsting."

Drudwyn says, "Stop standing under the garderobe then Edwin"

Theia trails off, "Ah..."

Theia states, "He lived a 'nearly' long and health life."

Calanthe grins.

Theia trails off, "Like... 28 I think"

Ivar asks, "Is the GI really exempt?"

Asvaldr says to Farra, "I'm aware of that. I was simply referencing why I brought it up in the first place"

Kinaed states, "We kinda got two topics roped around one another, so I want to try to tease them apart a bit. The first is the Seneschal's new powers - I'd say let's wait and try that out because we do believe the system is responsive to abuse."

Ivar claims, "Because I'd think they'd be just as susceptible since they aren't the Cardinal"

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.

Cee claims, "AGreed."

Kinaed states, "The other is staff regulating support."

Farra states, "'Temi states, "I believe we already added the Grand Inquisitor as an exception as they don't answer to secular authority"'"

Kinaed nods at Farra.

Kinaed states, "That exception exists, yes."

Drudwyn states, "Thank god. Because, holy damn. It's hard enough getting ANY player to fill the GI spot... if they get kicked out for whatever reason. Rip order. "

Kinaed nods at Drudwyn.

Cee says, "I'm totally cool with staff regulating support."

Calanthe states, "They've been run out of office by 'secular authority' in the past, mind."

Calanthe says, "Namely mobs and such."

Empena states, "Or ... something like that."

Asvaldr thinks we need more mobs

Temi states, "That was also a nod to them being in a position where to do their job, they often have to play the unpopular role, and they shouldn't be politicking quite the same way"

Kinaed claims, "On staff regulating support, there was a forum post asking staff to enforce more theme, as well as a lot of trash coming through the support system."

Calanthe nods at Temi.

Ivar says to Calanthe, "That wasn't actually secular authority."

Ivar claims to Calanthe, "It heavily involved the Church as well"

Calanthe says to Ivar, "Let me have my joke."

Calanthe grins.

Prisca would be curious to hear an example of bad supports.

Temi claims, "Generally our first concern is just IC reasons"

Asvaldr "it will be interesting to see how much staff approved support changes the current guildleaders list..." Eyeballs all the infinite entrenched guildleaders

Ivar states, "Support add Vlora She has a big butt."

Kinaed says, "Staff sat down and asked ourselves where we could do better, and regulating these things were the places we chose to focus: rumors, support, and recommends."

Kinaed states to Ivar, "We've seen stuff perilously close to that, yes."

Edwin says, "That was why I supported her. The donk."

Kinaed states, "I'm happy to update the help files."

Lethanavir queries, "How many people can you support?"

Ivar says to Kinaed, "Jesus."

Kinaed claims to Lethanavir, "It depends on your social class and guild membership, but usually between 1-4."
Prisca states to Lethanavir, "It depends on your standing"

Edwin says, "I can do... two. I think it changes- yeah"

Empena states, "The rumors system would be a lot people if you could RPA who was talking nonsense and deal with it accordingly, or to subvert specific -comments- without trashing the whole rumor."

Ivar states, "I'll admit, I rather enjoyed my 15 IP a week."

Asvaldr eyeballs ivar "15 a week? I'm lucky to get 8!"

Ivar grins.

Edwin claims, "I get.. 2"

Cee states, "I was donated some IP once."

Edwin sobs.

Farra states, "I really don't like how rumor quash works, currently; I liked the old 'quash' system where you could add a comment AGAINST the topic or theme of the rumor and get people to like dismiss it."

Kinaed says, "Just looking at the time, I am so sorry, we need to move on."

Calanthe asks, "How has staff focus changed on recommends?"

Theia states, "I receive 3 a week and I'm good with that. :p"

Kinaed claims to Prisca, "You're up. :)"

Farra nods.

Kinaed says, "Guys discussing other things, please bring up topics about them next week."

Asvaldr queries to Calanthe, "There is an issue with recommends?"

Kinaed claims, "Or contact me after the OOC Chat to discuss further."

Calanthe nods.

Prisca states, "Just a short suggestion. I'm loving the wild wild wilderness. One thought I had, that others have brought up too, is that wolves should be more shy and not prone to attacking. I think perhaps bobcats could be made aggressive in their stead."

Farra claims, "I think Staff is just going to be a bit more concious of how they approve them, is what I gathered."

Cee claims, "I'm touching on this myself later."

Edwin states, "I read that entirely wrong."

Kinaed claims to Calanthe, "Just making sure that they're thematic - for example, recommending a player for unthematic RP is no longer approved because we want people to realize when something is unthematic."

Ivar asks, "That or maybe rename wolves to packs?"

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.

Calanthe exclaims, "I see, thank you!"

Kinaed nods at Prisca.

Edwin says, "I like that wild animals are acting like it."

Kinaed states to Prisca, "I'll mention it to Niamh, she owns the wilderness."

Edwin states, "But I kind of always assumed they did."

Edwin doesn't know stuff.

Kinaed smiles at Edwin.

Farra pontificates, "I hope staff is still processing general ways to make the balance between aggro animals and being able to walk around outside the walls more appealing to players. I think even our Physicians are getting a bit strained, and they're one of our most active and responsive guilds!"

Prisca queries, "Sounds good! how about animals attacking animals? or would that be too much of a load on the system?"

Prisca says, "Wolves going after rabbits and the like"

Temi says, "I don't think the system can handle that now"

Prisca nods at Temi.

Kinaed claims to Prisca, "Too much load and probably wasteful in terms of the system being player centric."

Azarial states, "Az is a bit loaded."

Temi states, "And we're definitely looking to achieve a good balance on aggro and wandering the wilds"

Asvaldr states, "It would be interesting for animal mobs to steal kills/carcasses"

Prisca says to Farra, "Physicians have been enjoying the increased RP afaik"

Theia queries, "Strained?"

Cee muses, "This was one of my topics, shall i bring it up now?"

Kinaed claims, "Okay, Cee it's your turn to bring up your topic. Please introduce us. :)"

Theia questions to Prisca, "Are you feeling strained as a Physician?"

Cee claims, "Alright. I'll start with animals then."

Cee says, "So in general I like this new change, however I feel like it just needs a little tweaking to not be so needlessly cruel. The two animals I feel there are issues with are bears and wolves.

Walking into a room to instantly be swiped by a bear dealing 70%+ of your hp in one hit isn't the greatest, especially at night when you can't 'scan' ahead to avoid them. I was thinking something like bears do not auto-attack unless you're in a group of 2/3 or more, and instead it roars threateningly at a lone wanderer, before attacking after 10 seconds or so.

This allows for lone people to not get potentially one hit killed (allowing for bleed, failing to flee, etc), but still provides a spooky thing for groups to be wary of.

Wolves have a similar issue in that if there's multiple of them in one room, you get instagibbed just by poking your head in. In a similar 'ramp' mechanic to the bear, I was liking the idea of wolves always being alone, but howling to call in the pack, and THEN attacking."

Theia claims, "I'm quite enjoying bandaging people up. It's fun making them squirm."

Farra states to Prisca, "One of them mentioned she loved being important but that it was a bit much to have like 3 people in a 30 minute window show up, when they are the only physician online and in a different scene, lol."

Azarial questions, "Scan, and armor?"

Prisca claims to Theia, "Nope, I'm happy to actually have a chance to get some physician RP in. had been long, long stretched between any before, and now I can count on at least a few a week"

Cee states, "The command Scan, yeah."

Kinaed says to Cee, "I'll direct Niamh to read this OOC Chat and have a think about wilderness design."

Cee claims, "Many thanks, I'll move on."

[Taunya]

Cee claims, "I was going to address this with the topic above, but I thought it was worth splitting into three topics, I discussed this with Dagerian, and this is what we came up with. NPCs and distance, especially in regards to bows.

I of course, may be wrong as this isn't explicitly written anywhere, but npcs completely ignore distance in relations to combat. Attacking as if always right next to you, but still allowing bows to attack.

As you can see, combined with insta-attacking high level mobs above, this becomes brutal for the weapon that is literally meant to be the 'safe hunting weapon', especially paired with the apparent fact (I may be wrong once more here) bow wielders take more damage as a 'downside' for using a bow.

While this may be very balanced against PC's in fighting, this effectively makes bows a literal disadvantage for hunters to weild. Personally, if distance is so 'op' for hunting, why not just make bows cost far more stamina, and have NPCs always 'close distance' in one turn. This way the player's MV is much lower when the beastie arrives, so they're going to get slam jammed that much harder.

Again, I'm a new player, so I don't know game balance great, and yes, MUDs can't always be 'realistic' in combat, so take what I said with a pinch of salt, what I wrote above is to me and Dagerian what would fix the hunting/npc fighting in the game."

Kinaed states, "That's already on the staff radar and we've discussed it, but haven't come up with any resolution as of yet. Thank you for the reminder and please be aware we know changes are required there and are deliberating given the complexity of the combat system, what the correct solution is."

Prisca finishes abruptly, "That is a point I'd been meaning to bring up for a long time actually. bows should likely give a + to defense vs. NPCs rather than a -"

Kinaed states, "We actually discussed it last week and I think I had to go in the middle of the convo."

Ivar says, "I don't really like the idea of a + against NPCs."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Ivar states, "Because that affects player guards, etc."

Cee muses, "Is having one free turn of shooting before an npc reaches you such a bad thing?"

Prisca says to Ivar, "Player's guard retainers can't attack anyway"

Ivar claims, "I only said a + to defense. Should just be neutral like other weapons."

Asvaldr has lost link.
Asvaldr has reconnected.

Cee says, "If it's 'op' like that, just make the weapon cost more mv"

Temi claims, "As a note, you can look into rooms before you go in them generally"

Prisca nods at Temi.

Cee states, "Not if it's night, sadly."

Ivar says, "I do wish you could look into adjoining rooms if you were holding a light source."

Prisca states, "I like the wilds being more dangerous at night"

Farra nods in agreement with Prisca.

Edwin states, "Well, ideally you don't go hunting at night. And yeah I agree with that, too."

Safir says, "Might be nice if scan worked one room ahead in darkness instead of three."

Cee says, "Yeah, I'm on the fence about it."

Temi states, "But mobs not taking range into account is necessary due to mobs not being able to handle the AI to get to the right range"

Safir says, "Ideally you don't go hunting at night, but you can't really control what time of day it is when you're able to play."

Farra says, "I'm with Prisca on this. I don't play a combat character, and the prospect of doing Inquisition things without a Knight around is bit irritating .. but I think it should err on the side of 'unforgiving'."

Cee states, "I feel we have to make a distinction between 'hard' and ' no counterplay'"

Empena states, "Maybe animals just need a delay before they attack right away."

Edwin says, "I don't think scan should work at night just because the light of your lantern or candle or whatever isn't casting light that far."

Ivar states, "They actually kind of do normally"

Calanthe wonders, "Maybe NPC guard retainers could keep their protect status while in transit?"

Cee says, "Hard is something that is very diffcult to overcome, 'no counterplay' is relying entirely on RNG to not be damaged during a trip in nature at night time."

Ivar says, "I've walked into rooms with wolves and managed to step out before they attacked."

Calanthe queries, "So animals would be ambushing your hapless guard and not you while you're out for your midnight tryst?"

Temi claims, "We do want to improve the system, we're just limited on our options some."

Cee claims, "Right now if you leave the city at night, it's literally a dice roll on whether you get attacked."

Farra claims, "I feel like most animals in the wild should be more or less takeable by a 36 fighter with some proper preparation. But not everything; sequestering the ultra-scaries to certain sectors of the map might help with that."

Farra nods.

Farra asks, "I mean, you 'can' still stick to roads to avoid dangerous mobs, right?"

Cee states, "I do like the idea of 'dangerous animal zones'"

Cee states, "Not that I know of Farra"

Asvaldr likes Farra's idea

Prisca nods at Farra.

Drudwyn states, "Yeah I believe the roads are safe. "

Ivar states, "Not really sure sequestering would work as well based on how Azarial described mob spawns and how they work in this game."

Cee claims, "Hm."

Prisca claims, "Main roads out of the city are free of mobs. some of the smaller roads, like around the city walls, still has a chance of encounter"

Cee says, "Yeah, I had a bison literally one room from the south road yesterday lol."

Cee says, "South gate*"

Ivar states, "As it stands, a 36 fighter actually can handle most non-aggressives."

Farra states, "Bison aren't aggro anymore, I believe."

Asvaldr claims to Ivar, "If Azarial can keep the alligators in the sewers... I like to think similar can be done for bears being kept to ertain areas."

Farra nods at Ivar.

Cee states, "They're not, no."

Kinaed states, "I recently asked Niamh to make the campsites where firepits burn safe from wandering mobs too, btw."

Edwin nods at Ivar. 

Azarial says, "Crocs have a differnt chute set."

Edwin says, "I totally did. I mean, I was almost dead. But I won."

Calanthe states to Kinaed, "Nice touch."

Cee claims, "The campsites are safe, yes. However your retainers can't follow you in for some strange reason."

Ivar claims, "Aggressive's really only been put on the scary animals except snakes."

Temi says, "We have at least tried to make the roads more safe than the surrouding areas (but not completely safe), and then deeper, more isolated areas more dangerous with the tough things, like the bears"

Kinaed says, "That said, I think it's pretty easy for staff to 'zone' bad mobs and whatnot."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Safir states to Cee, "If a location is non-animal you can't take your animals."

Cee states, "Got it, thanks."

Temi says, "But Niamh's done most of that, and I'm not sure how happy she is with the results yet"

Kinaed states, "I've made a note to direct Niamh to read the OOC Chat and request she think of some wilderness design improvements based on the issues discussed here."

Empena states, "Some of the only places on-grid certain things are sold are now in places you might get eaten by wildlife."

Cee states, "The way I see it, is if a player wants to go hunting, and OOC they don't have enough time to wait until IC dawn, you're basically screwed."

Cee says, "Maybe I'm not being charitable enough."

Empena claims, "Which ... folks might not realize."

Safir states, "If you can't get there, learn to fight or hire a mercenary."

Safir says, "Friendly advert from Savage Training."

Prisca nods at Safir.

Kinaed claims to Empena, "I don't honestly see people having to rely on other people being a problem. Not everyone should just be able to get and have access to everything in my mind. It creates touch points for RP"

Kinaed nods at Safir.

Calanthe wonders, "For Niamh's reading later: would it help if leaving the gates gave autowarning text that the wilds are dangerous?"

Temi says, "Our time does move pretty quick here.  The whole night is over in a couple hours"

Farra states, "I know Niamh's attentive to ways to make players feel like the wilderness is fair; I've had a few chats with her about it."

Cee claims, "Honestly, I think confining the 'really dangerous animals' to zones fixes this entire issue."

Kinaed states to Calanthe, "That may well be a good idea, thank you."

Kinaed nods at Farra.

Empena claims, "I don't see it is a problem either, however, when someone asks on visnet "Where can I buy X""

Asvaldr says to Calanthe, "That would get annoying real quick if I have to pass through a warning note just to get to my phome"

Azarial states, "Three hours, iirc.  four days in a day means a three hour day or night"

Prisca claims, "I've very, very rarely gone hunting when it's not just the break of dawn."

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Empena wonders, "And they are told, the next immediate knowledge might be ... PS mobs out there might beat you up, maybe the Help Businesses helpfile needs that noted somehow?"

Farra states to Asvaldr, "I believe it can be arranged where it only happens the first time."

Cee claims, "Wolves and snakes and other aggros are fine roaming around, it's more just being randomly attacked by bears that has me unsure whether the systems hould stay how it is."

Kinaed asks of Cee, "Did you have further topics you wanted to raise on this subject?"

Kinaed wonders, "Or anything else?"

Cee claims, "I have one final unrelated topic, yeah."

Kinaed states to Cee, "We're at the top of the hour, so please raise it quickly. :)"

Calanthe claims to Asvaldr, "Ah, to clarify, I was thinking more of a message you see when you're getting close to Southside for example, not that you get stopped to accept on the way out."

Farra claims, "I need to be getting out. Need to focus on school work :("

Cee claims, "Now this one's a bit of an amorphous one, but it's basically a little 'feedback' from my narrow point of view :)"

Kinaed comforts Farra.

Farra has been transferred out by Kinaed.  [OOC]

Cee states, "So I thought I might provide a little feedback on how I've found my first week (back after ages, but effectively a first week from fresh), but from someone with a couple years experience in other muds. Specifically what I want to bring up is how the 'high xp' playerbase, -in general- don't appear to be interacting much with the newer playerbase. Some of the absolute best RP came from Safir and Dagerian. They are both extremely experienced players who managed to find a little time out of their presumably busy schedule to not only scene with me for an hour or so, but also provide my character things to do.

If you're a high level character I'm sure you can go scagenve some leaves and food scraps on your own for that compost you want, but getting a new player to do it not only introduces them to the forage mechanic, but gives them a short term goal to work on.

However, despite often seeing 10+ people on who, there were points where I was 1 of 2 on whereRP, and the other one was in a place that was evidently behind closed boards, or at the least off limits to a common citizen. If it weren't for Safir/Draz, the game would have felt very empty for me if I didn't know how muds can tend to be like this. Edwin alone can attest how I've bumped into him a million times as we seem to be the most active people looking for rp."

Cee claims, "Hopefully that doesn't come across as whining or complaining, it ireally isn't :)"

Edwin claims, "I've... had some trouble finding RP sometimes. But usually not."

Cee states, "There's a real possibility my time zone just screws me tbh."

Safir claims, "Go team Charali."

Azarial has gone IAW.

Kinaed says, "I find that there's often 10 people online and 8 of them are in private RP... rooms of 2 down whereRP darkened out."

Edwin says, "Well, it depends."

Cee cheers.

Asvaldr trails off to Cee, "I think that may be the problem. I know I can log in during the middle of my night, see plenty of people on but no one on where... timezones sucks"

Prisca states, "Timezones can be a problem. I'm at UTC +9, so a lot of the day there's maybe 2 idlers on and me"

Kinaed nods at Prisca.

Kinaed claims, "I see Prisca regularly, so I know she's outside of timezone (I'm GMT +10)"

Asvaldr also sees Prisca regularly during the middle of their night

Edwin states, "I think a lot of people go out of their way TO RP with me. Specifically. Othertimes yeah, it's just sort of the way it is I guess."

Kinaed claims, "Well, I want to pubicly thank Safir and Dagerian, for one thing."

Calanthe states, "I don't want to claim I have all the answers, but I have a few ideas on moving RP around some more."

Lethanavir states, "My timezone prevents me from rping during the peak time in this game. I go to bed when everyone else goes on."

Calanthe claims, "Hopefully they'll help once I can roll them out. :)"

Temi states, "I do try to vary when we are holding events a little, and have been throughout these big plots"

Temi says, "But unfortunately I'm limited by my own time availability"

Empena claims, "Well, the wildlife is providing all the reason people might need to run into me to RP."

Kinaed says, "It's great that they've taken the time to RP with a new player, and I appreciate that. When I first came to TI, I had a similar problem - not because no one wanted to RP with me, but because people tend to log in and take care of their character's lives first thing - so they end up RPing with people they've got current plotlines with, and as a new player it can take some time to break into those spheres, though it does happen."

Kiryn claims, "As a general rule, I take literally the part in the helpfiles that says if you're on TI and have whererp on you're ICly available. And I'm established enough that it *probably* wouldn't be unreasonable to reach out if you were inclined. So reach out. Odds are good I'm just in another window anyway."

Cee says, "Kinaed summed up my 'issue' perfectly."

Kinaed states, "The way it ultimately fixed for me is that I played with the other new players mroe than I did with the older ones, though I did manage to connect with both as my character became more central to people's needs and whatnot over time, and eventually I just peeked outside the bubble and noticed I was the old player."

Edwin says, "I feel like a lot of people don't get involved. I'll say this: I go out of my way to create RP with people. And reasons for them to RP with other people. Including putting my character in danger if its' appropriate and thematic to do so."

Kinaed nods at Edwin.

Asvaldr trails off to Kinaed, "I Understand that all too well, and unfortunately I feel like I've become that type of player with my Tenebrae currently... More focused on getting meetings and plot related events taken care of versus going out and finding random rp"

Kiryn claims, "Speaking of, I owe at least one player RP who did randomly reach out earlier but I think I was getting ready to leave or something and couldn't nab him then."

Cee says, "@Asvaldr  As someone who ran a syndicate in another MUD, having a lot of new players as spy minions is op as frak my dude B)"

Kinaed states, "I think a good mix is okay for anyone, but I suppose having whereRP off when in private RP can make the place feel empty rather than hopping, even when it actually *is* hopping."

Calanthe questions, "Are there events and concepts that would make you, as a new player OR old one, more likely to join a public setting?"

Calanthe says, "Outside of being compelled by church bells."

Edwin states, "But I'm not going to try to tell people how they should enjoy playing the hame."

Lethanavir I'm too introverted to go to places I've never been IC to interact with players.

Calanthe smiles at Lethanavir.

Kinaed comforts Lethanavir.

Cee claims, "Honestly, a very easy way for old players to interact with new players is as I said. Get them to do all the little jobs they're too important and cool to do now."

Asvaldr cackles to Cee "Take that how you will."

Prisca states, "Let's burn down the Vavardi quarter, I'd pitch in."

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Calanthe states, "I appreciate you owning up to that. I'm nearly older than Dav when it comes to TI and I still get nervous playing with unknown characters."

Temi states, "For myself, I try to go out and plant myself at some public location to be available for people to come by and RP.  Sometimes it works and other it doesn't.  But always glad for people to come by when I have someone out in public.  Especially if I'm the only one there!  It's always frustrating to sit there for three hours and then the minute one person shows up, suddenly three more decide they can as well and it's a busy scene."

Temi grins.

Cee nods at Asvaldr.

Lethanavir says, "My crippling social anxiety"

Edwin states, "I think if someone told me my RP was terrible the first couple of weeks I was here I would have quit."

Kiryn claims to Cee, "Relatedly, there's a post on the IC board that might be a good RP excuse if you're interested."

Cee claims, "I'm a very friendly person IRL, don't worry that my character's a complete asshole."

Kinaed comforts Lethanavir.

Cee says, "I'll have a look, thanks."

Cee claims, "Now, Lethanavir and... who were the anxious ones? I'm making a point to RP with you now."

Cee states, "Whether you like it or not."

Kinaed grins.

Edwin states, "I'm always anxious."

Kiryn states, "Now she's getting it."

Lethanavir says, "@cee thats reassuring"

Kiryn grins.

Edwin claims, "Not about chardeath."

Edwin states, "I just don't want someone to be like, "YOUR RP IS AWFUL PLEASE STOP""

Cee claims, "Anyways, that's my lecture over. hopefully some of my points provided food for thought :)"

Asvaldr coughs to make sure he didn't lose connection again

Cee says, "And I didn't come across as too ignorant lul."

Kinaed says, "I think so, and I'm glad to hear people willing to seek out players like Leth who note that they're uncomfortable looking for RP to help out - so thank you."

Azarial has returned from IAW.

Lethanavir claims, "@Edwin Its impossible your your RP to be terrible"

Kinaed claims, "Have we provided any assistance on this, or is there more we should do or think about for the time being? I have to be honest 'I'm new and cannot find RP or feel like people don't want to RP with me' is a common complaint."

Cee states, "I think this is more of a thing the older players have to take as a responsibility"

Edwin claims, "I don't think I'm that good. Recommend list not withstanding. I feel like I'll get lax if I start thinking I'm doing well. <.<"

Drudwyn says, "Sometimes, I've found when playing a GL. Especially a well known one, it's a little intimidating for myself when trying to go into a public scene. It feels like I always have to make a big show of it, and can be a little draining sometimes. I@m sure that's same for all the other big wig GL's/"

Cee states, "Rather than something the admins need to concern themselves with."

Kinaed says, "We used to have Aides, but I literally only had one Aide who accepted that the reason we had Aides wasn't to answer visnet questions, but to actively seek out new players and give them RP."

Drudwyn states, "Somehow my fingers hit all the wrong keys as I just typed that"

Asvaldr misses playing samantha at times

Kinaed says, "I'd re-introduce Aides if we could get people who were genuinely willing to RP with new players as the gold standard of being an Aide."

Kiryn states, "Because I double as someone semi-important IC, if I'm at the computer I'm logged into TI just in case it goes down. I usually idle in my office if I'm in other windows so can still receive messengers and the like, and if I've got nothing on I usually try to find an excuse to drop in on some poor unsuspecting sop."

Theia has lost link.

Lethanavir questions, "Aide?"

Edwin claims, "I will play with new folks."

Kinaed says to Lethanavir, "We used to have player helpers called 'Aides'."

Azarial has created a toy top surmounted by running figures of wood[1].

Asvaldr states to Lethanavir, "Think... Mini-staff, whose focus is on assisting new folks"

Edwin says, "I don't need to do it for a reward or whatever,"

Kinaed nods at Asvaldr.

Ivar claims, "I never really had an issue going into public scenes as a GL, mostly just because I had the understanding that the pomp and circumstance was just assumed with my presence without a need to go that extra step, if that makes sense Drudwyn."

Kinaed says, "I think Asvaldr was the Aide that actually went out of their way to RP with new players."

Prisca questions, "Did aides get anything besides a badge on visnet?"

Asvaldr says to Kinaed, "That was back when I was still in school and had alot more time."

Kinaed states to Prisca, "Staff powers."

Asvaldr claims, "Nothing prisca"

Safir says, "I personally don't like super big public scenes so tend not to go to them.  If Queen's has over 3 on whereRp I'll normally nope out.  "

Kinaed states, "Well, some staff powers."

Empena states, "I'd be in for helping with that, I try to include people with stuff. "

Asvaldr trails off, "Well other than that, but well..."

Ivar agrees with Safir 

Cee says, "The immediate issue I'm seeing with 'aide' is that they're going to have all the newbies on 'their side' ICly if you get me, or at least friends with them."

Cee says, "If an Aide is enemies with character X, character X is going to gain a whole lot of enemies very fast."

Lethanavir states, "I'm going to try and actively find people to RP with, if they are ever on when I am "

Empena states, "That's something a GL might want to do anyways."

Kinaed states to Cee, "It shouldn't be like that."

Drudwyn states, "Yeah that makes sense Ivar, though I find it very difficult to just 'assume' the pomp happens in the background without noting it with the vPNCS or the reactions of my retainers. It's just something that I struggle with sometimes, not always, but I get drained pretty quickly if I have a bunch in a row. "

Cee says, "It shouldn't, sure. But it'd only make sense IC for that kind of thing to happen."

Asvaldr trails off to Cee, "Aides also had standards... I would argue that is against standards"

Cee states, "Aaaah, right."

Kinaed muses, "Was it like that before, Asvaldr? Aides having some sort of preferential IC treatment from other players?"

Cee states, "Irregardless, there'd sitll be a bias on the new player's half, if you get me."

Ivar queries to Cee, "If that's a problem worried about IC, then I'd suggest rping with those newbies as much as the Aide is?"

Cee says, "Maybe I'm too cynical lol"

Azarial claims, "As long as they keep it ic"

Lethanavir wears a leather arming cowl bearing a hem of minute, thorny roses on her head.

Kinaed nods at Asvaldr.

Lethanavir wears a pair of well-fitted leather gloves adorned with red roses on her hands.

Lethanavir wears a pair of heather kidskin gloves with tightly-creased cuffs on her hands.

Asvaldr wonders to Kinaed, "I can't really. Samantha was my aide, and she was a noble... So maybe her being a noble played into it somehow? "

Lethanavir stops using a pair of heather kidskin gloves with tightly-creased cuffs.

Kinaed trails off to Cee, "It was a problem when I inherited TI and Aides were 'Citizens', but I think we redefined that and staff have strict standards, so..."

Cee asks, "The GL's have second in commands right?"

Asvaldr states to Cee, "They should"

Empena claims, "Some do."

Kinaed claims, "I think/hope our leadership and example helped prevent that."

Kiryn claims to Cee, "We're supposed to."

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Edwin says, "Legit. My first ever long scene was with a nobody character. The conversation I had in that RP was so good, concept affirming and thought provoking as to where I'm going with this character is what made me stay and play."

Calanthe claims, "For what it's worth, I have hoped to push troubadours and associates into an IC aide role of sorts."

Lethanavir straps a supple leather bandolier with roses tooled amongst thorns over her shoulder.

Cee states, "Perhaps this is a role 2IC's can take."

Calanthe claims, "But I won't deny that a few OOC tools can really help."

Cee pontificates, "Hey buddy, heard of the merchant guild? We'd love to have you. Oh you want to join? Do all of these quests!"

Kinaed states, "GLs do have 2nd in commands... and honestly, I think it'd be good if GLs remember to delegate to both 2ICs and other members of their guild."

Kiryn deligates all the things. ... Sorry Prisca.

Asvaldr delegates the hell out of their thieves

Kinaed claims, "If you're a GL and you're logging into a lot of work, please *do* use your guild. They're there to support you and throwing them some of the IC love is great."

Ivar asks, "Troubadours as a... side role?"

Cee exclaims, "Even if you don't want to join this guild, let me educate you on all the cool things we do in the game, thus fleshing out the world!"

Lethanavir questions, "@edwin, who was thatbcharacter you had RP with?"

Prisca will do those tasks, eventualy.

Kinaed nods at Cee.

Edwin states, "Aeynswyth? Something like that."

Edwin says, "Awesome."

Ivar states, "Our current troubs are making waves. I couldn't possibly see them being relegated to just a side role."

Kiryn brandishes the whip.

Asvaldr claims, "That name sounds familiar Edwin"

Kinaed claims, "I don't know what it's like now, but in my day on TI, guilds used to fight over recruiting new players."

Calanthe questions to Ivar, "Was that to me?"

Empena states, "That happens now."

Calanthe claims, "Not what I meant at all."

Empena claims, "There's been RP about that."

Kinaed smiles at Empena.

Edwin states, "No he rolled in and instantly found a reason to play with me."

Cee says, "Well, if it means anything, not a single guild has batted an eyelids in poor Cee's direction."

Cee claims, "Because I've never got to meet a GL yet, other than Empena."

Ivar says to Kinaed, "Totally still do."

Empena waves.

Cee pontificates, "(at least I think so!)"

Edwin claims, "Commenting on hair color and then getting drunk. Which is good RP."

Kinaed states, "GLs don't need to be the ones making overatures at new players."

Asvaldr makes a note to have the tenebrae meet Cee in a dark alley

Empena claims, "Arguably you might not know if you'd met at least one of them."

Kinaed says, "I used to, as a random bardic apprentice, try to get people to join the bards, for example. Guild members have to provide sponsorship, afterall."

Cee says, "I do like the idea of a 'head of recruiting' roll in a guild"

Kiryn states, "I'd argue if the GL's making the first move on a potential player, the guild's doing it wrong."

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Cee states, "IT'll provide so much RP for new people."

Ivar states to Kiryn, "Agreed."

Calanthe nods at Kinaed.

Edwin says, "Admittedly this guy might just be interested in a baseborn Knight being a thing but... was still cool."

Empena says, "That might be just a timezone thing sometimes though."

Empena claims, "If I happen to be the one who plays when that person plays, well, so be it."

Prisca says, "I kind of miss having needing more than a single sponsor."

Kinaed says, "Guys, I have really enjoyed today's conversation. It's been awesome... and we're also 20 minutes over time."

Prisca says, "Would be nice if the GL could set a minimum"

Ivar claims to Kiryn, "One of my biggest issues with the GL role is that folks expect them to be out and rping with every member of the guild all the time. They're the most powerful figure in their guild, they sort of should have middlemen."

Asvaldr says to Prisca, "That revolves around the number in the guild"

Kiryn states, "Also, it may be useful to restate the importance of the seek command. Note: it does not have to be used to expres interest in joining a guild."

Cee says, "Perhaps this doesn't need to be codedly changed, but everyone just needs to keep in their mind, to rp and include newer players"

Calanthe claims, "You could ICly require more still, too."

Prisca claims to Asvaldr, "Not anymore."

Kinaed states, "I'm happy to leave the conversation open to anyone who wants to stick around, but I think we should wrap up the official OOC Chat for those of us who have things on today."

Edwin states, "Yeah I'm gonna go try to drum up RPs."

Empena states, "I think Aides would be helpful, but that's just my input if that's a thing staff are reconsidering opening."

Calanthe states, "Thank you for hosting the OOC meeting."

Asvaldr eyes go wide "When did that change! I swear I keep learning new things I didn't know changed."

Kinaed nods at Empena.

Kinaed states, "I think Seek being 'I want to talk to someone in this guild' being allowed for all reasons has been around for literally year."

Kinaed claims, "Yesrs"

Kinaed declares, "Years!"

Unrecognized command.  Perhaps you meant the following:
          south          sit      sheathe        sayto        shout   
          shoot   

Kiryn says, "It's also right there in the seek help file."

Kiryn grins.

Cee states, "Unfortunately, my character isn't interested in guilds. PErhaps that's my issue lol"

Drudwyn pontificates, "Join the knights!"

Cee says, "Unless you guys want to make a hunter's guild B)"

Lethanavir claims, "Theives are the better option"

Cee claims, "I'm afraid you'd probably not even accept me if I offered."

Empena states, "You can join a Guild for any number of reasons."

Drudwyn states, "Actually no, join the Reeves! So Zolin can have a friend."

Calanthe states, "I don't think you need to be in one, really! It has definite benefits, but I personally love freelancers."

Kinaed nods at Calanthe.

Cee says, "My character's too much of a social butterfly to want to be grouped in with people. Ugh."

Cee exclaims, "Mooom they're not my friiiends!"

Kinaed says, "I didn't join a guild with my first char for the longest time simply out of orneriness that everyone was in a guild."

Lethanavir says, "@cee I envy you"

Calanthe grins at Kinaed.

Asvaldr has way too much he has to sort through and remove in this log

Cee puts on sunglasses.

Kinaed declares, "Okay! Thank you everyone for attending!"

Cee waves.

Kiryn states, "Guild membership is def optional.. but if you wanted to be a hunter as part of a guild, there are like 80 million IC ways to make that a thing."

Edwin highfives Asvaldr.

Lethanavir blows a kiss

Cee claims, "Release me from this OOC hell"

Drudwyn explodes

Prisca waves!

Empena claims, "Yeah, and no doubt more than one of them."

Kinaed claims, "I'm going to trans everyone back, and just remind you that if you'd like more people to RP with, please think about posting a review on Reddit or TMC. :)"

Azarial peers about intently, then chases her tails once, twice, thrice--she's gone! [OOC]

Kinaed exclaims, "Enjoy your RP everyone!"

Calanthe pontificates, "Oh, and please consider updating your help player info!"

Cee says, "No u"

[Voxumo]

Thank you Taunya. I tried posting the other sections of the log, and was still getting kicked. Could edit the first post fine enough, up to a certain limit though.