Exile and its Implementation

[chronodbu]

I rather like the idea of vNPCs loyal to the crown attacking the person exiled and leaving them unconscious with a notification sent to the Reeves on their channel much in the same way committed crimes do.

That, or, how about this -

When the Exiled person or persons is inside the city or near the palace AND not cloaked/hooded, guard vNPCs spawn constantly whenever they enter a room until such a point that they're captured and thrown in said OOC room. The fighting would be alerted to the Reeves which generates RP for the Reeves to go after them and uphold the law of Exile AND it also gives a mechanically interesting thing to play with with cloaks for Antagonists.

"What're you doing showing your face around here, boy!" etc.

This also still leaves it open so a known and wanted criminal being hunted by the Seneschal themself can have some counterplay by dodging off into the wilderness which is in and of itself dangerous due to aggressive animals.

[Voxumo]

Firstly, if we are treating exile as banishment from the kingdom, then I think it has no place in our game, a game that entire grid consists of one city in one kingdom. If we had multiple "Kingdoms" that were on grid, then it would have a place, but we don't.

Secondly, If we are treating exile in the same vein as execution, then frankly let's just pkill the person. If they have gotten themselves to such a point that exile is an option, odds are they've done enough to warrant death. I'm all for giving the Seneschal power, but this just feels kind of stupidly unneeded/powerful. If it was merely "You are exiled from Lithmore(City)" it makes sense, but it's bordering on being a glorified pkill, a very costly pkill, that one could argue has less risks than actually pkilling the person, especially if capture is not a requirement.

[Taunya]

I really like the idea of it, but it should be considered a pdeath basically, Most shouldn't expect to be returned to grid. And they can choose to liquidate with full pdeath benefits, or just hold onto it if they want to, and maybe revisit the character again someday.

It gives another flavor of high punishment besides "Death to everyone!" for every criminal.

From help exile:

....

A successfully exiled character's presence anywhere in the Five Duchies becomes
a crime punishable by death. Their assets are seized, citizens of the Kingdom
who assist them can face criminal punishment, and harm done to the exiled
person is considered legal in the eyes of both the Law and Church.

Having given it more thought, I think it should just be done as a normal execution, no extra IP cost. They must be captured first- but with just standard warrants as far as NPC assistance goes. (Perhaps a 25 IP super warrant with the extra loading of mobs to attack and arrest could be an option separate from this, but not solely for exile. More of a reeve/knight thing than a Seneschal thing.) The Seneschal should be allowed to request the queen that just about any secular condemned criminal that would otherwise be executed be exiled instead.

Thoughts on ending exile:

They shouldn't be able to write the seneschal directly from where they are, but plots and IC board posts might be doable every x number of OOC months to get word back to Lithmore that hey, that guy's still alive somewhere. It should be up to players on grid to see about getting the exile rescinded if there's interest.

Otherwise, escape attempts should be 100qp major RPA, and have a chance of death. Something along the lines of RP Escapes under help captivity.

There should be an amount of time required before a return to grid is possible, with the distances involved.

[Starstarfish]

From the current help noble rights:

3) Nobles are immune to the penalty of death, except in cases of treason. Exile is the common punishment for capital crimes.

Exile is first and foremost the pkill command one would use against a noble PC who is IC convicted of a capital crime short of Treason (IE - Murder/Conspiracy etc.) This is a case where a person would otherwise be executed ICly but that is not our theme. So the exile is indeed, the functional PK of that character by the legal civil authorities. In those cases, I imagine this person is captured ICly and I don't feel one should be able to RPA around that, their chance to escape should be attempting a jail break following current escape RPA policy.

This hasn't come up in play in a while, as the arrested nobles within my functional time have been found guilty of Magery (and thus executed by the Church) or they were plots and the nobles in question were NPCs, and they were found guilty of Treason and were executed in some manner or another. However, what this would first and foremost represent that long standing idea above that just didn't have coded support. If we want to change that bit of lore/theme, then we could ... however, again, I feel like we've had a lot of push lately to change things about lore/theme people don't like.

In other circumstances, when the person has not yet been captured, I imagine functionally, yes it should be a declaration that a person is persona non grata.. That they are a legal non-person, I'd debate if they should be able to access their property as legally, they would no longer be seen as that person. Their accounts should be seized. I'd say it should function like a civil excommunication. But that said, I feel like for that to be functional, we need more coded reactions from NPCs. And more aptly, those NPCs need to provide a functional and possible challenge.

[Voxumo]

3) Nobles are immune to the penalty of death, except in cases of treason. Exile is the common punishment for capital crimes.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't that seem kind of redundant?
Seneschal: " Oh damn, we can't kill this noble, better exile them. "
Rando: "But wait, by exiling them aren't you turning them into lesser than a slave?"
Seneschal: "Yes."
Rando "So why not just strip them of their nobility and execute them to ensure they don't pose a future risk?"

Mind you, we've had precedent for Nobility being stripped of their Noble Rights. Casimir and... Arely? ab Lassider being the first two who come to mind. I mean heck, the Seneschal can grant someone Gentry Status, so in theory they should also be able to strip such.

Also apologies if I'm coming off as too critical, but Exile kind of came out of nowhere. Exile as a coded thing just feels wrong... it feels like it goes against what the game is. I can't think of any other command that can be used to basically pkill someone without being in the same room as said person.

I mean if it can only be used on Nobles due to some redundant clause, I guess I don't feel as strongly opposed about it. But still, just doesn't sit right.

[Taunya]

Exiling isn't worse than stripping them of their status. It leaves them some dignity.

For example, Napoleon was exiled. Twice.

[chronodbu]

Exilement is a standard Nobility thing. It's not even just based in the game world, but in real lift historical context.

If you go executing nobles who piss you off, you're likely to end up with the other nobles looking for your head because of it. It's more of a 'code' than anything among the elite, broken by outstanding things like treason.

Empena did bring up a good point though - We've only really had examples of treasonous nobility and mages. I don't really see this command seeing any regular use because it would simply be unthematic to exile a known mage, or at least Anti-Davite anyway, and I can't for the life of me point out an example of a PC noble who was caught in the act of treason.

[Starstarfish]

I don't really see this command seeing any regular use because it would simply be unthematic to exile a known mage, or at least Anti-Davite anyway, and I can't for the life of me point out an example of a PC noble who was caught in the act of treason.

The PCs that have been have been dealt with by stripping them of their titles first and then executing them in some other manner to my understanding.

I personally feel that the option to strip someone of their noble status (and thus noble rights) opens up more venues for RP, yes.

Which, would also serve the function if we wanted to allow nobles to marry rich Gentry, we would need the coded option to raise/lower someone's noble status, regardless, as clergy cannot use the "marry" command on a couple of different social ranks. Potentially. Given the Samael-Roland plot and all that went on with it that might be the time to introduce that lore change about such.

That said, I do believe there needs to be some non-religious version of an excommunication, whatever we want to functionally call it.

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

I'm all for using exile as a thematic IC punishment in those ultra-rare cases where it makes sense, but I still think that abruptly dropping a player in an OOC room is going to feel like an OOC punishment -- and that we should be reserving that kind of thing for policy violations only.

[Geras]

Agreed with Buzz.

At the very least you should have to be caught, and there should be an opportunity to RPA your way back to the wilderness or Southside.