Exile and its Implementation

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

I thought there was a processing queue for all exile requests, and that all such requests would have to be seriously considered by staff before being approved. I also thought exile was reserved for EXTREMELY rare cases, such as when a noble commits a serious crime -- in this case, they are sentenced to social death (forced to flee the Kingdom) rather than be outright caught and executed.

(Omitted, commentary on ongoing RP)

If we need a coded system for formally communicating through the Queen, publically denying/stripping someone's claim to a title, or even giving the entire Realm culturally-sanctioned permission to go after an enemy of the crown (mage or not), let's get those systems in separately from exile, please?

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

I also want to point out that our normal liquidate policy doesn't allow warranted mages and murderers to liquidate.

Exile as is currently implemented not only undermines those rules but actually puts OOC pressure on the exiled player to simply liquidate. This is absolutely horrible. Let's please find a way to handle these edge cases that doesn't involve transferring people into OOC rooms for non-policy reasons.

Using IP to remove mages from the grid who are ICly hard to catch, dropping them in OOC rooms, OOCly pressuring them to liquidate, these are terrible precedents we are setting!

[Geras]

Wait, did that actually happen? Was the player just arbitrarily sent to an OOC room?

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

25 IP is absolutely nothing, by the way.

I would much rather we find ways to use it that don't involve tossing someone in an OOC room to liquidate, thereby denying the entire game the chance to resolve the RP. In cases where we shouldn't be using exile (such as with KNOWN MAGES and CRIMINALS WITHOUT RIGHTS), perhaps we could instead use IP to put the entire city on a special high alert for the target.

For example, maybe we allow the authorities to spend 25 IP on each of the following, on a per-use or limited-time basis:

- Stationing more NPC archers on the city walls/gates/towers. A mage flying around within range risks being shot/injured/falling from the sky, making them easier to fight or capture.
- Stationing more NPC guards at the city gates, checking faces against known descriptions, with the chance to capture and subdue.
- More informants and citizens on high alert, able to provide faster reporting of sightings within city limits.
- Use of NPCs to set a trap ahead of time, which if successful can be used to help hold the criminal until PCs arrive or requires at least 1 PC present to activate?
- Open to other ideas!

Ultimately, I am sympathetic to the idea that villains can be especially hard to catch on account of not having enough Knights, Reeves, whatever in game or online. I am okay with using NPCs and vNPCs in a balanced way (meaning, at a cost) to help bring known mages/criminals to justice in extreme circumstances, but the point is that there should always be an active RP resolution.

[vaxin]

Wait, did that actually happen? Was the player just arbitrarily sent to an OOC room?

As the player, yes.

[-+[-__-]+-]

I support the idea more RP-supportive options of supplementing PC forces. Other recent changes, such as requiring an IC Event notice or a rumor if you liquidate, underscore the game's focus on story. A few changes and additions would keep the exile command powerful without risking abrupt ends to ongoing RP.

I like BK's suggestions!

I like the idea of spending an amount of IP fluctuating with metrics to add a perk. Wretched criminal on the loose but Lawfulness is in the toilet? You're going to spend more money and/or influence calling in reinforcements from neighboring towns. And said perks would be limited to that IP cycle so it's not just a one-time Big Win button.

[Kinaed]

Hmm. In short - it happened because that's how the system was implemented, which we were open about. The request was submitted, reviewed, and deemed to ICly make sense given the known IC context. I gather some people disagree with that, which is their right, but it was a staff decision none-the-less.

Staff are happy to discuss changes to how exile is implemented. Staff will not debate the particulars or merit of any given IC case, however.

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

(Omitted, commentary on ongoing RP) Would like to see exile implementation changed, preferably without any other players getting steamrolled by its use in the meantime.

We've had several people speak out about how its implementation seemed to be unfair to players and just plain bad for RP. I am sorry to see that it was allowed to be used in such an unthematic way prior to further discussion.

I'd also like to see some policy defined around when it is/is not acceptable to use the command, so that we're all on the same page going forward.

[Taunya]

The way it it seems it was implemented feels like a closed emote of sorts. Correct me if my understanding is wrong, but from what I hear, it doesn't give the sentenced any options, just assumes that they would flee the kingdom, and places them off-grid requiring 25QP to return from.

                            Helpfile for Closed emote

A closed emote is one which removes any chance of a reaction from the named
person, such as emote rushes towards Caitlynne and stabs her many times in
the chest.   - Caitlynne has no opportunity to respond to the emote, other
than to take the damage.  These are not allowed, except in the most unusual
of circumstances.

A better way is to lead towards the desired affect, giving the other
person(s) a chance to respond to it, such as emote rushes towards Caitlynne,
thrusting his dagger towards her chest.

The only exception for closed emote policy is when the victim is
restrained/arrested.  In that instance, the restraining party has IC
authority and is presumed to have capability, to do anything with their
victim that would be ICly reasonable.

Note: If you have received this help file via ASSIST, please review your
recent emotes and make sure that it doesn't apply to you.  It's very easy to
write closed emotes without even realizing it!

See also: RESTRAIN

(Subject area: information            Last modified: Mon Jun  5 09:37:13 2017)

Exile as it is would make sense to me if they were already in custody, and I wouldn't have a problem with it- rather I'd welcome it as an alternative to the usual capital punishments for when it makes sense.
Allowing it to be used without RP leading to their capture however feels twinkish to me. It forces them off-grid no matter their present circumstances or what they would do. It kills RP instead of bringing RP to a conclusion.

[Buzz K[ir]ill]

I don't think any of us would have a problem with it if it required a capture.

The argument is that from a historic standpoint, you wouldn't have had to capture someone to exile them first, but as I've already stated, I think that's a poor excuse for the current implementation, which seems straight up bad for RP and bad for the game.

(Omitted, commentary on ongoing RP) We should not be using vNPC handwaving, coded commands, and instant OOC transfers to forcibly remove difficult IC problems from play.

We need to give the authorities better means to deal with extreme problems in a manner that promotes RP rather than shuts it down.