Log of OOC Meeting - 6/22/19

[Sparkles]

Kinaed wonders, "Today's Agenda is:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"

Sparkles states, "I have a topic."


Wimpled says, "I have a minor topic."


Kinaed nods to Sparkles and Wimpled.


Kinaed asks, "Anyone else?"


Kuzco claims, "Me"


Kinaed claims, "A quick reminder, if you've registered a topic, please pre-write it. Got you, Kuzco."


Kinaed says, "If you're not on the list, but would like to be, please feel free to send me a tell in the time leading up to Player Topics."


Kinaed states, "Kicking off the Staff Updates for today, last week I handled one or two minor policy things, got through a LOT of stuff on the Staff Talking Points board, and that's about it. This week, I anticipate not getting anything done at all because I've been regularly working from 8am to 11pm for the last week thanks to a regulatory project in my day-to-day-actual-pay job."


Kinaed claims, "This project must be delivered by July 1st, though, so with luck I will stop being a burned out husk as of the end of next week."

Kinaed states to Azarial, "You're up net "


Kinaed says, "*next"

Kuzco nods.


Kuzco pontificates, "Good luck Kin!"

Kinaed says to Kuzco, "Thanks "


Azarial claims, "I've bene working down through my bug list, and my warnings this week. nothing spectaular."


Kuzco claims, "Thanks for the bug fixes"


Kinaed says, "Okay, we do have a few changes worth mentioning - due to a policy complaint about nobles hailing people into a room when people enter, hail summon should no longer work while in RP. If people want retainers with them, this means you need to summon them before entering a scene, or your character is officially alone."


Temi states, "You can still use hail call if you want them to be in a neighboring room and come in if you need them."


Sparkles says, "I've realized a difficulty with that is if you left a retainer sitting somewhere and other people are now in that room with them, they are basically trapped."


Raspberries says, "That's nice."


Kinaed claims, "We've updated notify so that people can call for a person in a guild anywhere in an official guildhall, and members of the guild can alert their guild that they're answering the call, provided they are not themselves in another guildhall."


Kuzco queries, "Hail call? Cool"

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Temi finishes abruptly, "That's what it was intended to - to ICly summon nearby retainers"


Chief can't wait to hail in his fellow plebians.


Kinaed says, "We've added a note to matchmaking code so it'll alert staff when matches are made. We've seen no matches, so I'm assuming there's a problem with the matchmaking code that it's not working, so that'll probably be a bit of a focus this coming week to get it resolved."


Ethelon keeps forgetting that he has a pet and pays taxes for it.


Kuzco claims, "I have never seen or heard of it working."


Ethelon says, "I don't even understand fully, what's it supposed to do."


Chief states, "Yeah. I must've joined TI when it was just added? Saw a helpfile about it, was quite sad not to see it ever work."


Chief claims, "Looks promising, though."


Kinaed states, "Smell is in, thanks everyone. To add a smell to an item, add an @smell extra desc. To interact with objects and see if there's a scent, 'sniff <obj>'"


Chief squints.

Chief lifts a festive child's toy wolf garbed in winter boots and a hat to his nose and sniffs at it.


Raspberries says, "I think I might have matched once on an alt, when it first came in."


Kinaed claims, "I think that's everything. Temi, you're up "


Chief says, "Okay. The wolf's not got a funny smell."


Galax gets her sniffer ready.

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.


Satoshi says, "You can also sniff rooms."


Temi states, "Yeah, I didn't think of doing that."


Francesca says, "I'm loving @smell! Though Niamh gave me a mini heart attack when I was just sitting there and she assisted me help sniff without context or warning. I was like 'why is Niamh sending me the file on sniffing your food for poison.'"


Raspberries does not have a Kinaed to sniff.


Kinaed smells like horse.


Temi claims, "Let's see... I may have added some fur trim and towels to crafting."


Francesca pontificates, "Ooo!"


Satoshi declares, "Ooooh!"

Kinaed claims to Temi, "Sweet "


Temi claims, "But not a whole lot."


Chief asks, "Fur towels?"


Francesca claims, "Ew."


Francesca claims, "Fur towels sound gross."


Satoshi embellishes his towels with fur.


Temi says, "You could embellish a towel with fur trim, I suppose."


Raspberries makes some fur-trimmed towels.


Temi claims, "I wouldn't. But you could."


Chief asks, "Could, would, should?"


Francesca says, "No should."


Kitty trails off, "Rabbit fur..."


Kuzco wonders, "Can I embellish a towel with a vanilla bean?"


Satoshi says, "WET FUR. Lovely. Makes you smell nasty AND feels gross, truly the best creation."


Chief states, "Nothing like smelling like wet dog after a good toweling-off session."

Raspberries claims to Kuzco, "I think so."


Temi says, "We do expect people to use the systems sensibly."


Raspberries nods.

Kinaed finishes her note.


Francesca claims, "I will sensibly make towels. I promise."


Kitty claims, "Wolf fur, horse hair, doggie fur... walk away more hairy than you started."


Temi states, "So please don't use the system to do something that you find hillarious because you shouldn't be able to do it."


Elysaveta wonders, "So no saffron towels?"


Kirill orders 50 fur-trimmed towels.


Francesca cries.


Chief delviers.


Chief delivers, even.


Raspberries asks, "No diamond-studded baked goods?"


Kitty offers her fur... kitty fur EVERYWHERE...


Temi states, "Probably best."

Temi nods at Raspberries.


Sparkles questions, "Do different furs add different values?"


Kinaed says, "The help twinking policy help file does have things in it like 'don't do things against common sense just because it's codewise possible' btw."


Elysaveta says, "Only if they're gold versions of baked goods to begin with."


Temi states, "Using prestigious furs will transfer prestige."


Sparkles nods.


Kinaed says, "Like making a 7 ft tall 3 year old."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Raspberries claims, "Embellishing does not affect the item value though"


Chief claims, "Does drying yourself off with a prestigious fur towel make you Prestigious "


Francesca says, "It just makes you fancy."


Satoshi claims, "I mean, you charge more for the item because you have to MAKE the thing to embellish it with. If you're selling to a player."


Satoshi states, "Anyways, I think we got this down."


Temi states, "Nope. But it might make you dry with a soggy lump of wet fur."


Ethelon wants a fur-trimmed loincloth. For that extra prestige.


Elysaveta says, "An ermine loincloth."


Kitty claims, "Hairballs."

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.


Kinaed muses, "Cool. Temi, anything more to add before we move on?"


Temi states, "Newp."


Kinaed states, "Thanks, Temi and Az, for your work this week. Deeply appreciated."


Ethelon exclaims, "Thanks!"


Francesca declaims, "Yes! Thank you!"


Ethelon cheers


Kuzco declaims, "Si!"


Raspberries states, "Good changes "


Kinaed wonders, "Alright, next on the agenda - Player Heartbeat! How was the game this week, folks?"


Kuzco states, "Pretty BADASS"


Kuzco claims, "Lots of DRAMA"


Satoshi says, "I've been a lot busier and more tired but OH MY GOD YES on the drama so much"

Ethelon claims, "Had some really interesting stuff happen. Mystical stuff."


Francesca says, "Lots of great RP! Some mildly weird RP, too. But all good stuff! Yule was fun. Thanks for coming to the gala, guys."


Kinaed claims, "Oo, and not a lot of policy. I'm liking what I'm hearing."


Chief says, "Been better."


Elizabethany says, "I've been having a hard time getting into things when I have the time, but then.. not a lot of that."


Galax exclaims, "Um. A lot of fun. Very eventful!"


Raspberries states, "Still pretty busy with RL, but had time for a couple of scenes."


Satoshi claims, "I'm actually bumping into the problem where I'm not available to the public for RP as much because I'm being swept from scene to scene, lol"

Kuzco pontificates to Elizabethany, "Want me to share some DRAMA?!"

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.


Ethelon claims, "Also, I have been angry at the crafting system. I keep getting lost in the commands."

Kinaed comforts Elysaveta.


Satoshi promises he loves everyone he just is a walking ball of drama.

Kinaed states to Ethelon, "Do you need someone to walk you through it? I might be able to arrange a time for a staff member to help."


Kirill says, "My schedule has been relaxing some, so it's been a little easier to make time for RP. Feel like I'm on top of my IC biz, more or less."


Chief claims, "Yeah, I've had a real tough time getting into anything as well. Hard to find folk, aside from the a small selection of.. maybe five faces, hard to consider the events enjoyable. Not an easy time starting a new MUd."

Kuzco claims to Kirill, "We miss you."


Elizabethany says, "Happy to be included in things, even drama, but not really anything to force."


Kirill says, "I also set up sound notifications for incoming messengers, notifys, and pages, and that has been amazing. No more missed messengers because I was tabbed out working and just didn't check TI for half an hour."

Kinaed says to Chief, "I'm sorry to hear that. It turns out from chatting with Az just now, that matchmaking code has been turned on, so that might help."


Hadia exclaims, "Very new to the game still (and rather busy), but thank you to those I've run into for scenes!"

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Kuzco states to Kirill, "I should do that"

Ethelon trails off to Kinaed, "Mostly it's just that I can't remember how to find out vnum and crafting sub-categories..."


Brando states, "I had a bung infected elbow and was restricted in how much and how long I could type. So I mostly didnt RP even if I was online. "

Kinaed asks of Kirill, "That's cool - is it a snippet you wrote that you can perhaps share on the forums, or too tailored to your use?"


Kirill claims, "It's tailored to Mudlet on a Linux system, so I doubt it'll be of much use to anyone else, hah."


Sparkles questions, "Talking about crafting help, was there a decision on getting a helpfile for clothing size/layering?"

Kinaed muses to Ethelon, "Ahh, hmm. I don't craft, never have, so I don't really know. Temi, do you remember how to find the vnum and crafting sub-categories?"


Francesca says, "It's a pretty easy trigger to set up. I set one up myself after I saw Kirill had done it."


Kuzco claims, "Sounds client specific yeah"


Temi claims, "I don't actually follow."


Kuzco states, "Most clients have client side triggers tho"


Chief thumbs-up sparkles. "Was ready to ask that if it wouldn't be raised."

Raspberries nods.


Kirill claims, "Both Mushclient and Mudlet should have fairly easy sound trigger options, though."

Kinaed says to Sparkles, "I haven't seen a request for it, or a typo about it - but that may be because I haven't read the boards today. If we need more, please typo board it."


Kirill claims, "I just had to find a workaround because I'm using Linux."


Temi claims, "I think tailoring stuff generally has notes in it about how the sizes will layer."

Kuzco nods at Kirill.

Kinaed says to Temi, "I think Ethelon needs to remember the -craft thing."


Kinaed trails off, "But I don't remember it myself, so..."


Kinaed hoof twiddles.


Sparkles states, "The sizes in the helpfiles are relative to other stuff but if you don't know the next craft you can't access that yet."

Ethelon states to Temi, "Whenever I get the idea to make some basic things, I struggle to find out the related vnum and crafting category. Or if that item even exists, yet, for that matter."

Temi claims to Ethelon, "You can use craft -search thingy, and it will search all your crafts."


Chief says, "What Sparkles said. It's kind of hindered by how you can't inspect recipes out of your skill league. And it'd also not be accessible to those you sell the stuff to."


Chief states, "Unless they, too, are a Tailor/Leatherworker/etc."


Raspberries states, "Craft search doesn't show which craft they're under though"


Azarial questions, "...they could talk to the crafter about it and earn rpxp?"


Elysaveta claims, "You can tell the exact size of a thing with appraise, if your skill is high enough."

Raspberries nods.

Kinaed nods at Elysaveta.


Temi states, "Maybe craft -search should also mention the skill."


Raspberries states, "(craft) inspect (recipe) will also show sizes"

Raspberries nods in agreement with Temi.

Kuzco says to Temi, "Yeah totes"


Wimpled claims, "It'd be great if craft -search mentioned the skill."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Sparkles says, "That would be super helpful for some of those weird unskilled recipes."


Chief states, "I'm not one to talk about being merchant-y though. I've no clue on how folk play one, how prices work or stuff.. xD"


Ethelon nods at Temi.


Kirill claims, "Craft -all will show you a full list of all crafts in a category, e.g. concoct -all"


Kuzco says, "Ditto Sparkles"


Kinaed muses, "Anything else shitting anyone (that isn't already a player topic) that you'd like staff to know about?"


Kirill claims, "So you can see what recipes you haven't learned yet, even though you can't inspect them."


Francesca claims, "Well, we're trying to work on an OOC guide for that. Or at least there was a brief pboard discussion on it. I'll look into it again, Chief."


Satoshi says, "Yeah the uncategorized skills aren't even MENTIONED in the help crafting helpfile"


Kuzco claims, "Hm."


Ethelon claims, "Nice, Kirill! That'll help me out a bit."


Chief claims, "That'd be good."


Satoshi claims, "I can't even remember where I found out about them"


Chief claims, "I've not really been able to run into fellow Merchants much."


Chief claims, "So it's also not been easy to settle in as one."


Kuzco queries, "Have you tried mailing them to meet?"


Temi states, "The merchants are just on an upswing after being very low in numbers"


Francesca says, "Yeah, you can mail us. Notify and then send a messenger, etc."


Kuzco claims, "Yeah"


Temi states, "So I think they've got more going on again, but may still not be at full strength"


Kirill muses, "Can you spam notify your own guildhall? >_>"


Satoshi says, "Or sending messengers. Though your character doesn't exactly come off as super outgoing 'hey we've met once and I think we should chat'"


Kinaed trails off, "You can..."


Francesca says, "I'd rather he didn't."


Hadia exclaims, "*waves* Life beckons but see you all later!"

Chief claims, "Well, idk if that's the way to go."


Kirill says, "HI GUYS, I'M HERE."


Kinaed states, "But i'm pretty sure I'll he complaints about spam notifications."


Chief queries, "Outgoing?"


Kinaed claims, "*hear"


Kirill chuckles.

Wimpled claims to Kirill, "I don't know, but the Physicians will find out."


Chief claims, "How can I, if I don't know 95 percent of the stuff I'm surorunded by "


Satoshi states, "It might be a battle between you oocly want to interact but your character is not one to easily seek out said interaction."


Francesca says, "Well, we just had a big IC meeting so I don't think we're all up for another one. But you can just message any merchant for help."


Chief says, "Not the case. Just don't know how you go 'Hey, I know jack-all about merchanting' in this game much."


Francesca states, ""'Hi, I'm a foreigner. Please help me in this strange new place.'"


Chief claims, "Looks like most Cyans I saw in the Merchants know the game very thoroughly, and so.. I don't know if there's even any guidance to expect there."

Kinaed asks of Chief, "Oh, did you want me to see about maybe finding you an RP buddy or anything, since you've had some trouble naturally getting involved?"


Satoshi states, "I can talk to you oocly but your character is a freeman and not from a merchanteer type background, SUPER easy to ask for help ICly"


Kitty questions, "Wait, what will the Physicians find out??"


Satoshi claims, "I'll make sure to reach out more IC on my merchant."


Chief questions, "He is?"


Wimpled states, "You're an apprentice - you'd naturally have questions about starting businesses, making displays, how to build relationships with clients and advertise things."


Raspberries states, "The merchants have a handy seekers book"


Wimpled states, "All things you can talk to any merchant about."


Chief says, "I've got a history with some merchant-stuff in it"


Satoshi claims, "Oh well we've barely spoken, I assumed he didn't."


Chief claims, "Oh, and yes, Wimpled."


Kirill claims, "What Wimpled said."


Satoshi states, "The seekers book is also hella out of date and also I never found it IC looking for it."


Chief says, "But that feel kind of got lost by how the other Cyans looked like they join with.. well.."


Francesca states, "Well, the point is, you can reach out to other merchants for help! We'll be happy to help."


Chief says, "Huge histories full of merchanty stuff, already having numerous clients. etc"


Chief claims, "So being 'yet another new merchant' kind of got a weird feel that way."


Satoshi states, "Anyways this is a tangent."

Chief nods.


Chief states, "Sorry."


Kirill says, "Even if you were a Merchant back home in smalltown X, you're still learning the ropes in the big city, etc."

Kinaed queries to Chief, "Did you see my question above?"


Chief states, "Oh, I did. I'd appreciate that."

Kinaed asks of Chief, "Or has this conversation helped?"


Chief says, "And it has, yeah."


Ethelon questions, "Chief, you're from the netherlands, right?"


Kirill says, "But my general recommendation for ANY new player is to not play a character with a highly developed / advanced background."

Kinaed wonders to Chief, "Cool. I can't promise anything, but I'll see if I can find someone. Actually, before I go singling people out - anyone where want to volunteer to be Chief's RP buddy for awhile?"


Chief states, "I am, yeah."


Ethelon states, "Here, I'm in GMT+1, too."


Chief claims, "Mine isn't developed or advanced. I didn't even grab any mercantile skills above 20 from the get-go to represetnt this."


Kirill says, "Or to play a character who is already supposed to be knowledgeable about stuff you haven't OOCly figured out yet."


Kirill states, "That's like basically writing yourself into a trap."


Elizabethany claims, "Everyone's usually very excited to help, just sometimes don't know how, or are loaded with juggling their own things they don't think of it"

Raspberries grins at Kirill.


Satoshi says, "I will make sure to reach out more often on my merchant alt, but I've been busy lately so I don't want to say I'll be on all the time to be a full-time buddy"


Kirill is probably speaking from experience.


Kitty doesn't have a merchant.


Temi says, "Feel free to ask questions about how the systems work on visnet and all that"


Chief declaims, "Mmhm -- I know. But when I odn't see the majority of the Merchants, I just assume they're busy.. and from experience, when folk are busy and not out-there, they tend not to appreciate being pulled over by a newb >.> Anywho-- I'm fine! Let's continue!"


Kinaed states, "Okay, I have a volunteer in tells and I'll share that info with Chief later."


Kinaed claims, "Let's move on to our Player Topics so we have time."

Kinaed exclaims to Sparkles, "You're up first! Please introduce us to your topic!"


Sparkles states, "I would like to propose that help noble rights can a potential peek or consideration. While I know and appreciate that helpfiles are left a bit vague to potentially/purposefully spark potential conflict or interest, it's come up enough I think it warrants a discussion. Particularly the idea of nobles being able to "invade at will" others property on their lands. There are no noble PCs in Lithmore for whom arguably that applies in the game world as nobles all have their lands off-grid in places represented in assets or plots.

However, commonly (from the scenarios I've been involved in) this seems to be utilized to demand access past xblox areas into Guildhalls. Which I would say first, kind of takes away from the roles of Reeves/Knights/Inquisitors if every noble can function as one themselves. And I'm not sure that's within the scope of what's intended with that helpfile."


Francesca says, "Well, it says they can enter any dwelling upon their lands at any time and may invade the property of any non-titled individual as they wish."


Kirill claims, "I hate to see a perfectly good IC power play turned unnecessarily into an OOC issue."


Kuzco claims, "No PC nobles are in their lands."


Francesca says, "That to me says: enter any dwellings upon their land, invade any property of any non-titled individual as they wish wherever. But it does seem open to interpretation."


Raspberries states, "I think that does only apply on their lands, yes"


Kirill states, "I also have a character who is perfectly happy to comment on noble limitations."


Wimpled says, "No PC nobles are in their lands. These would be the Queen's lands here in Lithmore, no? So that'd be a stretch to invade private areas of her lands."

Raspberries nods.


Kirill claims, "But yeah, theme wise, nobles only have rights to kick down doors in their own domains."


Raspberries says, "But they can still force reeves to beat people if they refuse."


Sparkles says, "But they aren't in their domains."


Ezio claims, "The Queen's lands are assumedly the entire Kingdom. "


Kitty says, "Sure, the Queen's lands are, but not each individual noble's lands."


Wimpled states, "Right, but Lithmore is also her seat."


Satoshi says, "Yah but Lithmore is specifically hers and no one else's"


Kinaed claims, "I think that's pretty straight forward, and I think guilds are a gray area that we should enjoy the prospect of seeing nobles try."


Kirill claims, "Wow. I thought that helpfile was pretty clear."

Raspberries says to Ezio, "Yes, but the queen is also sort of the duchess of Lithmore"


Satoshi says, "City, rather, lithmore city. Anyways, I think a noble can request it anyways, and it's still fairly in their purview."


Kirill claims, "Apparently not."


Kinaed states, "I don't think changing noble rights because 'these are what you're most likely to see in-game' helps the thematic fact of who they are and explaining what their rights are."


Satoshi muses, "But refusing a demand might not have the same effect as it would in their home province?"


Ezio claims, "The Queen by default would also own all of her nobility's lands, because she is the top point of the nobler hierarchy as sovereign."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.

Kinaed nods at Ezio.

Ezio states, "So yes, she owns Lithmore as duchess and Queen, it is specifically hers, but so are all other lands."


Sparkles says, "But that's up to the Queen that seems to be assuming a lot of things on the Queen's behalf."


Wimpled states, "Right. That's not what's being questions right now though, Ezio. It's when nobles try to claim right of access in Lithmore City because it's their lands."


Kuzco wonders, "The queen owns noble lands? Are you -sure- of that?"


Kirill states, "Sure, the Queen could kick down any door in the Kingdom if she wanted. But that's not what we're talking about, it is."


Kirill states, "Is it*"


Ezio states, "But that is an IC power play, not an OOC misunerstanding."


Ezio states, "Just for the record "


Kuzco claims, "That seems to contradict feudalism, in a european historical sense,"


Raspberries claims, "I'd kind of like to see the queen kicking down doors and smashing all of the jars inside."


Kirill claims, "Kind of beside the point. I think the question is whether visiting nobles have the right to kick down doors in Lithmore City."


Chief says, "You can. But that'd involve dreaming."

Kuzco states to Kirill, "Fair. Though I will research this on my own."


Azarial states, "They might try to play it icly that they have the right, much like using FUD on someone to sway their beliefs into your ideology RL"


Satoshi raises the peace-stick. "Heyla, calm. I think the intent was just to clarify if this is something that visiting nobles can do in the Queen's city, since it belongs only to the queen. As-is, I don't see much to say that they CAN'T since nobles are assumed to be able to just demand a lot of stuff."


Kinaed says, "Sorry, I'm struggling a bit to keep up with tells and OOC chat at the same time, folks. If I've missed something you said, it's because of that, not willful ignoring."


Raspberries states, "Nobles are a little above the law, even if they don't have the 'right' to."


Kuzco states, "If I understand correctly nobles have a religious right to deference and respect, not to obedience in Lithmore."


Kuzco states, "A noble orders me to jump a bridge, I'll just shrug and refuse."


Kirill states, "My interpretation of the helpfile is that nobles have the right to invade private homes in their own domains. There is nothing that specifically grants them that right in Lithmore City."


Kirill claims, "However, they can try to IC powerplay that."

Raspberries nods.


Azarial wonders, "The question is, how do you saddle the bridge inthe firs tplace to take it jumping?"

Kinaed nods at Kirill.


Sparkles says, "Correct, that's my confusion in the helpfile, because that situation doesn't apply to anyone ICly, so does having that in there prove confusing was kind of part of the point."


Kinaed states, "I think it's something the Seneschal is perfectly capable of deciding the right or wrong of in any given situation."

Galax is idle.


Satoshi points to Kirill. "That seems to be the basic interpretation of it. But it's been oocly stated that it was an IC motivation, so that means it's not an ooc misunderstanding, so changing the helpfile won't...help."

Raspberries nods.


Kinaed claims, "I see no value in altering the help file."


Kirill claims, "That's a fair point, Sparkles."


Ezio declares, "If this game is based upon 1200 European monarchy, it is not assuming a lot on the Queen. I would like to pose the thought that some players do not have an OOC understanding of monarchy and nobility during this time period. The nobility are an extension of the Crown, part of the Crown's hierarchy of which the sovereign and Queen lead. Their rights are oriented from that of the crown. It seems that a lot of players interact with nobility more in the modern sense of constitutional monarchy, not introduced until the 18th century. Nobility were really looked upon as demi-gods during this era. (sorry long post!! )"


Sparkles claims, "Except ... this kind of is a constitutional monarchy as the Queen was rather literally voted in by a Baronical Council."


Kuzco claims, "Taking into account french nobility, no, the king is merely a primus inter pares, the First amont the Equals,"


Kuzco says, "*among"


Kirill states, "I don't really want to argue RL examples."


Satoshi adds, "I believe in this setting nobility has a religious claim to power, in the way people in ye olden days believed kings were divinely appointed."


Kinaed claims, "Er, I'm sorry, but I agree with Ezio in terms of interpretation of the power and general authority of the nobility in this game."

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.


Kuzco says, "Alright."


Azarial states, "There isn;t a constitution anywhere"



Sparkles questions, "We are supposed to see them as demi-gods?"

Ezio claims, "That is more along the lines of Magna Carta than constitutional monarchy. "

Kinaed nods at Azarial.

Kinaed nods at Ezio.


Satoshi says, "No, but they are physically BETTER than non-nobles, by right of being born nobles."


Azarial says, "The barons doing the voting were a power play."


Kinaed states, "Albeit the Magna Carta doesn't exist here either - what does exist is that we're more 'magna carta' timeframe than 'constitutional monarchy' timeframe by leaps and bounds."


Temi claims, "The baronial council only has as much power as the queen gives it. The queen agreed to that, because she saw a war looming she thought she would lose."


Kirill claims, "I'm not sure how to make the current helpfile better without adding a paragraph of caveats."

Kinaed nods at Temi.


Satoshi says, "That's how the caste system functions, and is supported religiously by the Erra Pater."


Ezio nods to Kinaed.


Kinaed claims, "I don't think any need to be added, I think it's up to the Seneschal as the factual ruler to interpret as he or she sees fit when they see fit."


Kinaed says, "Some Seneschals may feel it's okay, others may not."


Kirill states, "I'm good with that."


Azarial claims, "Some might have the baron flogged for daring to ask."


Kinaed gives two thumbs up.


Kinaed trails off, "Okay, next topic..."

Kinaed exclaims to Wimpled, "Please introduce us!"


Wimpled claims, "So, I realize this is probably a minor issue since there are only so many elderly characters, but... when you try to display your proficiency in a combat skill, it displays your altered proficiency level (due to age) rather than what you actually know. This is really problematic when teaching lessons, when lots of my students like to display their abilities while emoting. I'd like to be able to do the same when teaching, but it won't display that I'm a champion or grandmaster, it'll display something much less. I'd really like a way to still display my knowledge vs. my old person ability. "


Kuzco claims, "Agreed. "


Kuzco pontificates, "I'll be old soon!"

Kinaed states to Wimpled, "Thanks, we will have a look at that. Adding it for Staff Review."

Kinaed queries to Kuzco, "Okay, your topic is up next. Please introduce it? "


Kuzco asks, "I would like to ask why non davite religions cannot pray davite prayers. This seems to contradict the helpfiles that indicate that everyone has a davite education/outlook of life. It also is dangerous when a heretic is expected to pray like a davite with the pray command. So would it be possible for non davites to also have davite prayers? Or should they switch religions each time they must pretend to be davites codedly? "


Raspberries queries, "Yeah, makes sense to me. Also, is the ability to teach hampered by age? because it shoudn't be"


Wimpled says, "Ability to teach is not hampered by age."


Wimpled says, "Just actual ability in combat."


Raspberries says, "That's good."

Kinaed claims to Kuzco, "Good point, adding it for Staff Review."

Kuzco nods.


Wimpled states, "You can see it when you wield a weapon and in your combat defenses. "


Temi states, "It's just the way it's coded, I think. Not that they ICly can't."


Kinaed claims, "I think that's legacy code from when religions where highly coded, etc."


Kuzco states, "I am aware"


Kuzco says, "But"


Kuzco says, "In mass when everyone types the same prayer command, heretics are screwed"


Kinaed claims, "But I agree that everyone would pretty much know the davite prayers, even if they're not Davite, the same way I know the Lord's Prayer and I'm not remotely religious, just raised in a Christian society."


Wimpled states, "Agreed with Kuzco."

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.


Kitty claims, "But theoreticall, they should have been brought up in it, so familiar with it... so should be able to 'fake' it."


Azarial wonders, "Huh. pray is used in mass now? that must be spammy as heck"

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.


Temi says, "I dunno if the codd prayers really make a whole lot of sense now, anyway."

Kinaed nods at Kitty.

Raspberries nods in agreement with Azarial.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kuzco states to Kinaed, "Xactly"


Kinaed states, "Probably need a review. Added to the list for Staff Review."


Raspberries claims, "Perhaps culling the pray command is more warranted"

Azarial says to Temi, "I left them as flavour props. they could be added to a helpfile adn they jsut purcahse their faith an"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.


Wimpled states, "I like them as flavor props."


Satoshi trails off, "I...like the flavor props"


Kinaed says, "I think anything in the pray commands might go well into help files to explain to people what the prayers look like, etc."


Brando claims, "I love the pray command. please no cull it "


Kinaed claims, "As opposed to being commands."

Kuzco claims to Temi, "I agree, but then IC worded prayer texts like the Davite rituals books would be good. And not every religion has those."


Wimpled states, "But people should be able to use them to fake, too."


Raspberries says, "Flavor props are nice, but they needn't be so spammy"


Chief declares, "Didn't even know pray was a thing! Neato!"

Kinaed nods at Kuzco.


Sparkles claims, "I don't think anyone wants the commands themselves removed."

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.


Satoshi states, "I think the better solution is just give the basic davite prayer to other religions on the basis that they would know them."


Satoshi pontificates, "If you DON'T know them for some reason because you're a hermit or something, just don't use it! Easy!"


Kinaed says, "I'm inclined to remove the commands, other than selecting religion. They way they work now is nonsensicial."


Chief questions, "As in just set those to Any. like say.. Moment of Silence?"

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.


Kinaed says, "That's definitely a possibility. I've put it on the list for Staff Review."


Kirill queries, "Can't you just purchase another religion really fast and pray to fake it?"


Satoshi says, "But I really like the prayer flavors. They don't come up often but I feel like there's no reason to cut it."


Kirill claims, "I thought purchasing religion was a free thing you could do anytime."


Sparkles states, "That seems pointlessly gamey."

Raspberries nods in agreement.

Kinaed claims to Kirill, "I think you can, but it's a bit of a pain for something silly."


Satoshi says, "This is an easier solution"


Kuzco claims, "Yeah Kirill you can"


Kuzco states, "It's what I am trying to avoid"


Kirill muses, "Who is praying to be silly?"


Kirill states, "I thought we were all praying to avoid the order."

[Action: Chief has religion if you have coin ]

Kinaed states to Satoshi, "For the record, we weren't saying cut them, but to change their format to be either an in-game book or potentially a help file."


Wimpled claims, "Not all religions are book oriented."


Satoshi states, "That's essentially cutting it, since I ENJOY that the code walks you through the steps and there's already SO MUCH to remember."

Kinaed nods at Wimpled.

Kinaed nods at Satoshi.


Kirill muses, "There's no coded benefit to praying, right?"


Sparkles says, "The coded command helps to sort of allow people to have it "memorized" rather than have to look up helpfiles in the middle of a scene."


Wimpled states, "Yeah, I just did an entire scene based around one of the prayers. It helped guide the RP. "


Kinaed states, "We'll refer to this conversation when staf discuss."


Kirill asks, "Not anymore?"


Kitty states, "Not anymore."

Raspberries nods.

Kirill states, "So just open it up to everyone."


Satoshi trails off, "No but there's no coded benefit to like...roleplaying well or having fun"


Kinaed says, "I do not believe there is any code benefit to praying other than, as Kuzco mentioned, proving your religion."


Wimpled claims, "I refuse to have fun. "


Kuzco claims, "None by helpfiles"


Kirill claims, "Yeah, just open it to all religions, let people fake it."


Satoshi forces Wimpled to have fun.


Wimpled states, "Don't even try, Satoshi."


Kitty knows better, and has pboard posts to prove it, Wimpled...


Raspberries claims, "You know how I got this scar? Fun."


Kirill states, "Whether someone is pyred should come down to RP, not whether they have code access to some auto-prayers."


Chief asks, "Wait. Isn't pyring what you do to mages, not just.. someone of other beliefs?"


Satoshi claims, "Some could argue that not knowing the coded prayers is like not knowing them by heart well enough to do them easily in church, but it does toe meta-gaming."


Kirill states, "You can pyre heretics."


Chief states, "Sweet."


Chief states, "My Warhammer fanboy just giggled happily."


Kuzco says, "Heretics are definitely pyre"


Kinaed trails off, "Okay, we've got 12 minutes and another topic..."


Kuzco says, "The previous justiciar for example"


Chief shushes.

Kinaed questions to Kirill, "Would you like to introduce us to your topic please? "


Kirill claims, "Yes, I will! I hate to poo-poo, yet again, on the hard work that was done to revamp our rumor system, but after another couple of weeks of trying to give it a chance, I still really really don't like it. It's really sapped all the quick wit out of the system, and I really dislike reading 2-3 interpretations of basically the same thing, phrased a little differently."


Kinaed queries, "On the whole, can I get a sense for how the rest of the pbase is feeling about that?"


Kitty seconds.... doesn't like.


Kuzco claims, "I do admit some promotes are utterly pointless rehashes"


Wimpled states, "Don't love it."


Raspberries claims, "I don't hate it."


Kuzco claims, "Don't love it, don't hate it"


Francesca states, "I'm kinda meh on it. A lot of the promotes are pointless. Some are good. I don't hate it."


Kinaed says, "I might put it up on the forums to give people a chance to vote."


Brando says, "I dislike the new rumor system."


Kinaed states, "Just in case they're not here today."


Wimpled claims, "Like that there is less really nasty stuff in it, but don't like seeing the same basic thing over and over."


Chief says, "Democracy for the win."


Galax claims, "I'm not the biggest fan. Rumors aren't as fun to read through any more, and promoting myself feels a little milquetoast to do."


Kuzco claims, "It gives troubs more information control as they can see the 'bigger picture'"


Satoshi trails off, "I will say that...with the promotes getting pushed out, it's easy for someone to try to completely change the rumor by spamming influence to try to change it completely"


Kirill states, "I miss the nasty stuff. >_>"

Raspberries nods at Kuzco.


Satoshi says, "Which happened with this week's shitstorm... BUT non-bards don't see it because it happened so quickly"


Galax states, "Which has me conflicted, because I do like the element Kuzco jus tmentioned."


Satoshi says, "So it mostly became a war of bards VS people who want the rumor to not be like the bards do"


Temi states, "I do think people are still just getting used to it."


Kitty says, "The nasty stuff rocked. It was... thematic, honestly, when it was appropriate. And when it wasn't and it didn't fit the rules, it could be reported, so no harm, no foul."

Kuzco nods at Temi.

Sparkles claims, "The really caustic off-hand comments could be some of the most amusing rumors when the random code NPC drops one in the middle of a scene."

Temi says, "Not convinced if it's good or bad, but I think the fun stuff to it hasn't really been fully explored yet"


Satoshi states, "And I still very much enjoyed the wandering of the old rumor system because it felt very rewarding to purchase the rumors."


Kinaed says, "It's interesting that bards have an obvious advantage here in the new system."


Satoshi says, "To see that whole conversation, whereas now if you just hear it pop up from an NPC you don't REALLY need to buy it"

Kinaed wonders to Temi, "Want to clarify what you feel the fun stuff that hasn't been explored might be?"


Kirill states, "I think the new system is more tedious and less fun, and I don't think that's going to change based on topic."


Satoshi says, "I in fact have an ooc friend who doesn't buy the rumors at all because "they hear the NPCs say them""

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.


Chief states, "I kind of like the idea of rumours allowing Freeman to bad-mouth those higher-ups, or something you might not openly tell -- say noticing a nobleman drinking from a public fountain. Yet to properly explore on it, but I do agree the fact you shouldn't respond to the Rumor -- but write your own version of it makes it... a bit weird."


Temi claims, "The morphing of rumors and shaping of the message. If it's just exact restatements, that doesn't really add a lot, yeah."

Raspberries nods.


Satoshi wonders, "Well if I may pull from example if that's not breaking rules or something?"


Sparkles claims, "I'm not sure everyone now understands what exactly is or isn't allowed under the new policy which might be part of it."


Kirill claims, "If you're not rehashing, then you're commenting, which gets us back to the old way."


Kinaed states, "From what I gathered, a bard or two noticed that happening this week, so rapidly that they felt that the only people who noticed the morphing was the bards."


Chief says, "What Spark said's def the case for me here."

Temi nods at Kinaed.


Satoshi says, "The recent rumors had a battle between shading a rumor as good for one person, VS bad for another person"


Raspberries states, "The new way lets you put your own agenda into the whole rumor. You can retell things and try to shape it. I really like the idea"


Satoshi claims, "But it felt like a lot of players were all ganging up on those specific rumors all at once"


Chief wonders, "Wait. Might I ask why Bard is such a recurring thing here, talking about rumors? Do bards automatically get access to all rumours or something?"


Sparkles states, "Yes."


Satoshi claims, "If you don't check rumors regularly and don't get the bard updates you wouldn't even see it"

Kinaed nods at Chief.


Kuzco nods at Satoshi: "Good point. Purchasig rumors loses attractive. Though I don't see a drop in purchases (as Laudate I have this info)"


Galax claims, "Bards get rumors for free, and can see more of the 'stale' parts of a rumor's retelling chain."


Chief declaims, "Cool!"


Satoshi claims, "And some of these promotes seemed to happen ALL at once, to the point where even -I- as a bard missed a lot of the promotes"


Francesca states, "I agree with Satoshi. That's something I noticed this week as well."


Satoshi says, "And since if you have a lot of IP you can just spam until the people who don't (me) can't keep up."


Sparkles says, "I think I like the new code but think possibly considering an expansion to what's allowed to be said."


Chief says, "But yeah, I quite lost incentive to purchase these rumours now. Bought a few, but simply didn't know how I could logically re-tell that stuff, not knowing anyting about it."


Kuzco states, "I noticed rumors got so spammy that even bards lost most of the original stuff"


Kinaed questions, "Do the bards feel like this is of huge benefit compared to the old system, or was the old system overall better despite the cool idea?"


Satoshi claims, "Whereas before the old one you saw the WHOLE conversation so you could hear both the good and bad and make your own conclusions"
Chief laughs.

Kuzco claims to Kinaed, "Needs more testing and experimentation from the pbase before I can answer that"


Satoshi states, "And it also was obvious that there were two gossip mongers clearly supporting two different parties back and forthing. Felt very alive and added to the theme."

Raspberries nods.


Kirill states, "I feel less compelled to promote overall, but especially about issues I wasn't there to see first hand."


Kinaed asks, "Or what if we return to the old system and come up with some command or cost to let people rewrite certain responses to the original rumor or something? *ponder*"


Kuzco states, "I was not a big fan of the old system, at all,though I kinda miss it"

Chief nods at Kirill.


Sparkles claims, "I think the difficulty is that the new code is helpful, but the expectation to rewrite rather than comment leaves less people participating so things can quickly feel a bit um, "done"."


Kirill says, "It's easier to spin something differently if you were there to see it."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.


Kirill claims, "If you weren't, you're just a commentator."


Satoshi muses, "I think both systems have good and bad points about them. Possibly I would suggest having a...maybe a timer on the responses before they gray out?"


Kinaed states, "Okay, this is what I think I'll do."


Kinaed claims, "I'll add it to the Staff Review agenda, and I'll ask all staff to read this convo."


Kuzco says, "Good idea Satoshi"


Satoshi claims, "If people can see stuff happening rapid fire it will make it OBVIOUS this is a hot topic"


Kinaed claims, "We'll keep the rumor system for at least one more week and ask the Troubadours to please consider these questions in ernest and report next week's OOC Chat"


Chief declaims, "Well.. You also need to know what precisely to comment on, if you want to retell something? Whereas a comment you can simply make as an outsider. Like 'Oh another X doing Y? Reminds me of Z!'"


Raspberries states, "You can still spin uninformed- may lead to more interesting rumors in the end, if people fill in details that didn't really happen"


Kitty claims, "I disagree, Kirill. If you hear a rumor about someone you dislike, you might be more prone to twist it negatively when passing it on, just... because. Same for someone you like... you might be more prone to sugar coat it, just because."

Temi nods.


Kinaed states, "I'll also start a thread on the forums and get players to make comments, etc there. Next week, we'll have a robust discussion as staff from the input we receive"
Ethelon is idle.


Temi claims, "Definitely would be fun to see misninformation taken advantage of too"

Temi grins.

Raspberries grins at Temi.


Satoshi claims, "I'll example: This rumor went from 'wow very pro bard' to 'wow very anti noble' back and forth"

Chief claims, "Mmmh.. Robust talks.."


Satoshi states, "So it was a HUGE jump in twisting idead"


Satoshi states, "And i LOVE that they got twisted"


Satoshi states, "I just don't love that it felt like people abusing the mechanic so that the other side got bumped off"


Raspberries claims, "That doesn't sound like abuse, that sound intentional for the system"

Kinaed asks of Satoshi, "I'm not certain that's abuse, though, but actually the intended use?"


Kirill states, "Maybe, Kitty, but I don't feel motivated to participate in the new system as it functions now, either negatively or positively."


Kirill says, "It feels like work to me."


Kinaed states, "Though I wonder if that's a good or bad thing, either way."


Kitty claims, "I watched that one - BUT... I think the people commenting were actually breaking the rules. Since it was going through the Troubadours, it should have been commented on with a troubadour twist. The ones that were very pro noble (I saw some of those) didn't seem to be troubadour commenters."


Kirill says, "It's not snappy anymore."


Satoshi states, "Possibly but that still doesn't benefit the non-bards or the people not doing it. Since, as I have said, I'm fairly certain people were using IP to multi-promote the rumor"


Temi claims, "I do have some more ideas for it based on discussions we've had"


Satoshi trails off, "Because all of this...if you aren't spamming rumor all to see an update...you miss it"

Kinaed comforts Kirill.


Satoshi states, "The bards get pings but no one else does."


Kinaed says to Kirill, "I really appreciate your bringing up your concerns twice in two weeks, and being patient while we collect the data across the pbase."


Kuzco claims, "I do enjoy those extremely caustic promotes of the old system are gone though, since there was no IC way to fight or track them"

Kuzco nods at Kirill.

Raspberries nods in agreement with Kuzco.


Kirill says, "I miss being able to read the conversation and just add something thematic to the thread without having to regurgitate or synthesize."


Kuzco claims, "This system allows for more damage control and to push the hate away"


Chief questions, "But isn't the hate sort of what is part of the game, the theme?"


Francesca says, "Only if you're a bard, really."


Azarial says, "And rumors are never true."


Chief asks, "The racism, the class imbalance, the social networking and intrigue and so on?"


Kinaed says, "I felt like caustic things in the old system could just be responded to with 'that's dumb, you caustic liar' and that's as much power in response as the original poster ever had."


Kitty states, "Well, I don't like this system as much, either, I was simply... making a point that it could still be commented on, even if one isn't there. Gossips be damned, gossips will gossip. It might be a girl thing."


Wimpled says, "It would get very, very, very nasty. "

Kuzco nods at Kinaed.


Chief says, "Mmh.."


Satoshi trails off, "Yeah like, if the rumors still stayed, my character would be in hotter water than currently, where right now it's sorta...ehhh it's not a big deal anymore"


Kuzco claims, "I still didn't like it, even when it benefitted ne"


Kirill says, "It could get very nasty."

Kinaed nods at Kirill.


Kirill says, "I miss that, too. Heh."


Kinaed says, "Okay, we're at the top of the hour."


Kuzco states, "People accusing people of magery in promotes. Or disclosing secret information."


Chief says, "I do get that. While there's realism behind potentially super-venomous commenting, I can see how it can impact OOC/IC vibes, or feel as if it's something OOCly."


Kinaed pontificates, "Thank you for your time, everyone!"

Wimpled says, "That's fine. But during that system, there were lots of people complaining about it, regularly."


Chief states, "Ah. And that."


Francesca states, "I don't miss the nastiness of the old way, but I do miss the ability to just comment."


Kirill says, "Anyway, I appreciate the chance to air my grievances."

Sparkles waves.


Francesca pontificates, "Thanks for the meeting!"


Satoshi pontificates, "Thank you staff we love you for your work!"

Kinaed states to Wimpled, "Only the people who were targetted, 90+ percent of the time"


Kuzco nods at Kinaed.


Kuzco says, "That's fair."


Kinaed declares, "Alright, next week - same time, same place. Enjoy your RP until then!"


Kinaed waves happily.
Azarial peers about intently, then chases her tails once, twice, thrice--she's gone! [OOC]

Raspberries waves.
Kirill waves.


Ezio declaims, "Hope everyone has a good week!"


Ethelon pontificates, "Have a good one!"


Chief claims, "Yeah. I'd have used rumours more if I could just comment, not regurgitate a story I know nothing of - none of the peeps, or story behind it -but then again, I'm new "


Kuzco says, "Remember t post reviews in reddiiiiit"