So picking up from today's OOC chat, I thought we could kick around some ideas on how the arrest/restrain code could work.
I did a search and this isn't the first time it's been brought up:
https://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 5822#p5822
https://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1554
For now, I think it initiating combat so the arrestee can attempt to flee without having to throw a punch first would be good, but in general it might be good to review how it works.
Arrest/Restrain
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Starstarfish
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What does flee currently take into account? Stats or skills of some kind?
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Buzz K[ir]ill
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Dexterity, I'd imagine, and possibly distance from the target? I don't fully recall, so maybe someone with more recent knowledge can comment.
I think current defense might play into it too, and some randomness. Tougher opponents are harder to flee from, but if you keep trying you might succeed (while they still have a chance to stop you by knocking you senseless in the meanwhile).
An alternative I suggested before is allowing the 'shoulder' command to attempt escape, which is different from the combat code. Shoulder likewise has some random factor, so multiple attempts might eventually mean success. It seems to be more stat focused, and it's also harder to shoulder past when you're individually targeted rather than someone guarding against all trying to shoulder past.
A plus to this is unlike flee, it'll take the number of people assisting with the arrest into account. If others are guarding a direction, it's next to impossible to shoulder past them, whereas flee will bypass them entirely if it succeeds a single check. A downside is shoulder can be spammed, and there could be less chance for someone to react than with the 5 minute combat code rounds.
An alternative I suggested before is allowing the 'shoulder' command to attempt escape, which is different from the combat code. Shoulder likewise has some random factor, so multiple attempts might eventually mean success. It seems to be more stat focused, and it's also harder to shoulder past when you're individually targeted rather than someone guarding against all trying to shoulder past.
A plus to this is unlike flee, it'll take the number of people assisting with the arrest into account. If others are guarding a direction, it's next to impossible to shoulder past them, whereas flee will bypass them entirely if it succeeds a single check. A downside is shoulder can be spammed, and there could be less chance for someone to react than with the 5 minute combat code rounds.
*bump*
Brought up again in today's OOC chat.
Last time it was brought up: http://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1851
Brought up again in today's OOC chat.
Last time it was brought up: http://ti-legacy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1851
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Starstarfish
- 2018 Cookery Contest Winner!
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- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:13 am
- Discord Handle: Starstarfish#4572
Having experienced an automatic code arrest and all that entailed I can say the way the current system is set up rewards towards code reactions rather than RP. If you are typing a response and are "too slow" the other person can just shrug, and you are still arrested.
IE - that "wasting" your time attempting to roleplay or talk about the situation rather than code fight/flee is basically a guaranteed "loss."
It's odd IMHO that arrest code doesn't work like any other combat system or general expectation of RP. As it basically codedly allows someone else to force emote your character without any real effort on their part directly. And while I understand there's been naughty behavior in the past, beating people up and restraining them is and remains a viable option.
And as things stand it skews things in the favor of older/more experienced players who better understand the nuances of combat code.
I'd argue a solution is that the prompt for arrest code should make more clear the code options: fight or flee. And as such, like combat with a wild animal or other aggressive NPC, arrest code should just automatically start combat with expected turns accordingly. Including having guard retainers react. This IMHO creates the most realistic and fair experience as then everyone involved can best understand what the command is meant to represent. Otherwise I think people can/do interpret it as a "please don't resist" request rather than "I'm currently placing you in handcuffs."
But as it stands, it's one of the many factors that make playing an antagonistic and/or sneaky type sometimes more trouble than it's worth, particularly a non-mage who doesn't have the coded protections that mages do from such things.
IE - that "wasting" your time attempting to roleplay or talk about the situation rather than code fight/flee is basically a guaranteed "loss."
It's odd IMHO that arrest code doesn't work like any other combat system or general expectation of RP. As it basically codedly allows someone else to force emote your character without any real effort on their part directly. And while I understand there's been naughty behavior in the past, beating people up and restraining them is and remains a viable option.
And as things stand it skews things in the favor of older/more experienced players who better understand the nuances of combat code.
I'd argue a solution is that the prompt for arrest code should make more clear the code options: fight or flee. And as such, like combat with a wild animal or other aggressive NPC, arrest code should just automatically start combat with expected turns accordingly. Including having guard retainers react. This IMHO creates the most realistic and fair experience as then everyone involved can best understand what the command is meant to represent. Otherwise I think people can/do interpret it as a "please don't resist" request rather than "I'm currently placing you in handcuffs."
But as it stands, it's one of the many factors that make playing an antagonistic and/or sneaky type sometimes more trouble than it's worth, particularly a non-mage who doesn't have the coded protections that mages do from such things.
The arrest system is code arbitrated because it is one of the few commands/times in game when players are directly opposing one another.
It does not cut off RP, it's just that people need to remember if they want to flee, then they are resisting arrest and need to actually initiate combat to let combat code take over. The combat code and arrest code do not in any way take over for RP, these commands are in themselves designed to be part of RP. IE, any combat action is an emote, and fleeing during an arrest requires kicking off combat. The only 'impact' to RP that I can think of at all is the 5 minute time limit to decide what you're going to do and emote it. Generally speaking, 5 minutes is our standard timeout in many places from combat rounds to RPxp bonuses to arresting, so I don't see any incongruity there either.
The tree already looks like this:
- Someone attempts an arrest. This is a lock-down requiring the person being arrested to respond within 5 minutes in one of the following ways:
--- Respondent resists (combat ensues. The respondent can flee, attack, or anything in between that happens in emote combat. If they KO the arrester, they can finish or escape. Otherwise, if they are KOed, the arrest will be completed)
--- Respondent submits (they don't resist, the arrest is completed with no competition)
--- Respondent fails to respond in the standard 5 minute timeout (they did not resist, the arrest is completed as if they submitted)
This doesn't cut off RP unless the person responding either doesn't understand what happens in an arrest (ie the above) or they're dilly dallying because they don't want to be responsible for making a decision to either submit or resist - and unfortunately, not taking responsibility and actually RPing is RP Avoidance in a nutshell, and not allowed.
This may look like revising the prompts for the arrest code, but I think one of the issues is that, fundamentally, we'd have to rewrite a lot of things to adjust this, and I'm not convinced there's anything actually wrong with the code.
It does not cut off RP, it's just that people need to remember if they want to flee, then they are resisting arrest and need to actually initiate combat to let combat code take over. The combat code and arrest code do not in any way take over for RP, these commands are in themselves designed to be part of RP. IE, any combat action is an emote, and fleeing during an arrest requires kicking off combat. The only 'impact' to RP that I can think of at all is the 5 minute time limit to decide what you're going to do and emote it. Generally speaking, 5 minutes is our standard timeout in many places from combat rounds to RPxp bonuses to arresting, so I don't see any incongruity there either.
The tree already looks like this:
- Someone attempts an arrest. This is a lock-down requiring the person being arrested to respond within 5 minutes in one of the following ways:
--- Respondent resists (combat ensues. The respondent can flee, attack, or anything in between that happens in emote combat. If they KO the arrester, they can finish or escape. Otherwise, if they are KOed, the arrest will be completed)
--- Respondent submits (they don't resist, the arrest is completed with no competition)
--- Respondent fails to respond in the standard 5 minute timeout (they did not resist, the arrest is completed as if they submitted)
This doesn't cut off RP unless the person responding either doesn't understand what happens in an arrest (ie the above) or they're dilly dallying because they don't want to be responsible for making a decision to either submit or resist - and unfortunately, not taking responsibility and actually RPing is RP Avoidance in a nutshell, and not allowed.
This may look like revising the prompts for the arrest code, but I think one of the issues is that, fundamentally, we'd have to rewrite a lot of things to adjust this, and I'm not convinced there's anything actually wrong with the code.
The issue is the only way to initiate combat is by assaulting the person doing the arrest/restrain. If there were a way to attempt to flee otherwise, I wouldn't have an issue.
Someone can walk into a room, immediately type arrest, and even if the person is on the far side of the street, they would have to fight to be able to get away. There's no warning or opportunity for them to run away without first forcing the target to assault them.
Perhaps the inability to move should simply be removed from the arrest code. There are already other ways to prevent a victim from leaving, like guard (victim) (direction), or attacking and arresting them once they're subdued.
Someone can walk into a room, immediately type arrest, and even if the person is on the far side of the street, they would have to fight to be able to get away. There's no warning or opportunity for them to run away without first forcing the target to assault them.
Perhaps the inability to move should simply be removed from the arrest code. There are already other ways to prevent a victim from leaving, like guard (victim) (direction), or attacking and arresting them once they're subdued.
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