INDECENT!

[Myrella]

Precisely. If anything, Lithmorran standards should be adopted, not conditional standards based on a player race. Loose shirts might be acceptable in hotter climates like Farin or Tubor, but if they come here, they should be expected to conform.

I think the idea is not to change what is or isn't the rule of decency in capital L Lore and Law, but to use code to diegetically represent the perspective of a player character from another duchy through code.

I understand that that is the aim, but I disagree with it still. I doubt players consider things like prestige, lethal, and indecent flags to be diegetic but rather more like a HUD in a graphical game. And if they are treated diegetically, it makes huge assumptions about the character that the player may not agree with. Imagine playing any character that is running contrary to their racial norms. It makes more sense to me at least, to have the indecent flag pop up for the things that the general populace in Lithmore is going to find indecent because that's where the game (currently) takes place. It's not (does my player consider what I'm wearing to be indecent) but rather (do all the VNPCs around town consider my character to be dressed indecently)

If the game does end up expanding to other duchies (I hope not), I'd be more for a system that says when you're in Farin, it's okay to wear looser shirts, and its okay to not wear sleeves in Tubor etc (do I have those to social norms backwards?)

[Sparkles]

It already leads to confusion. I hear "Why am I indecent???" on visnet all the time.

Beyond that, it discourages such kind of conflict because you can't turn the darn thing off on your prompt without disabling other useful information. People tend to put something on the wear slot just to shut it up.

I'm going to say the idea that conflict over what is "appropriate fashion" is still very much a thing despite this flag. There was within recent times a whole lot of IC conflict on this very topic.

That has far, far more to do with people actually paying attention to what others are wearing and the willingness of people to have conflict about it.

[Taunya]

I understand that that is the aim, but I disagree with it still. I doubt players consider things like prestige, lethal, and indecent flags to be diegetic but rather more like a HUD in a graphical game. And if they are treated diegetically, it makes huge assumptions about the character that the player may not agree with. Imagine playing any character that is running contrary to their racial norms. It makes more sense to me at least, to have the indecent flag pop up for the things that the general populace in Lithmore is going to find indecent because that's where the game (currently) takes place. It's not (does my player consider what I'm wearing to be indecent) but rather (do all the VNPCs around town consider my character to be dressed indecently)

If the game does end up expanding to other duchies (I hope not), I'd be more for a system that says when you're in Farin, it's okay to wear looser shirts, and its okay to not wear sleeves in Tubor etc (do I have those to social norms backwards?)

I'd be for being able to customize what your character does and doesn't find indecent, but I think being based on origin domain would work for most cases.

I'd much rather the shaming come from PCs and NPCs rather than an obnoxious INDECENT flag on the prompt, even if you're say, in your own phome in the Tubori quarter without shoes on in the summer. If you take a stroll on Church Street like that, I expect you would hear something though (I think there's already mobprogs for such).

Likewise, I wouldn't expect someone raised on the Charali plains to notice someone with their hair let free, but a Lithmorran or Vavardi might. Anyone would probably take note of someone stark naked, however. This is less of a sticking point for me though, since it's not as in-your-face as the prompt thing.

the indecent flag on the prompt is a good reminder if you're a proper Lithmorran, but otherwise it's just an annoyance that you can't turn off.
Being able to toggle it off is also an acceptable solution, but then that would lose the reminders for things that your character WOULD find indecent.

[Sparkles]

This feels like making a mountain out of a molehill and I'm not certain why after so long this is such a dire thing. Trying to code all of the various levels of what different cultures and individual PCs do or do not feel about different levels of dress is overkill. People may or may not agree with their cultural takes and there's a point where something exists to tell the player information that doesn't need deep complexity on an IC level.

[Dreams]

I will note that wearing ANYTHING in the slot, even something that is not Lithmorran standard, turns off the annoying red flag.

Someone wearing only an armband isn't actually wearing sleeves and covering up their arms. Someone wearing just a headband doesn't have a hat on. But both situations take care of the flag and allow someone to be more true to their culture and, essentially, 'break' the rules of modesty in Lithmore. I will point out that even some of the newbie clothes do this. A Tubori women's newbie shirt is a triangle wrap around the chest. Essentially, a large bandana folded in half into triangles and used as a shirt. Lithmorrans would find this horrifying, but... people don't.

It is up to other people to actually LOOK at someone and what they are wearing to see if they would be offended. There are plenty of offensive looks out there. Even dresses and sleeves that bare shoulders, etc..

[Kuzco]

Wear piercings, they cover naked parts of the body. As a certain vavardi troubadour (who shan't be named) discovered not long ago.

[Myrella]

Wear piercings, they cover naked parts of the body. As a certain vavardi troubadour (who shan't be named) discovered not long ago.

That seems like a bug

[Geras]

I had a bodyhair object that worked that way too.