In what circumstances should you deny a PC (cyan or otherwise) entry into a guild?

[wix]

Let me offer the flip side here: Keep in mind that as a GL you should remember that every member you add to your guild also increases your workload. These are people who are going to need to be engaged with scenes and potentially have their promotion tracked and so on and so forth depending on your Guild's policy.

I am not familiar with how adding members increases a GL's workload. not disputing this, just trying to understand. is there somewhere I can read more about this?

[galaxgal]

It's not really something you can 'read more' about, but ask people who have GL'ed before (like myself). If you want to GL *well* you are going to want to teach/train your new blood, or be able to delegate someone to do that for them. You can mitigate this with a 2GL and Rank 3's* to delegate that work to but to do that you have to identify and fast-track characters who make IC sense to do so with. Even if you play an uncaring or 'mean' GL ICly, these are things that are important to making sure the Guild operates at baseline so that you aren't responsible for literally Everything(tm) that happens in the Guild's domain.

(*Not necessarily 'rank 3' but someone who has a title, like Knight, Inquisitor, an opped Bard, licensed Merchant, etc).

[Puciek]

It's not really something you can 'read more' about, but ask people who have GL'ed before (like myself). If you want to GL *well* you are going to want to teach/train your new blood, or be able to delegate someone to do that for them. You can mitigate this with a 2GL and Rank 3's* to delegate that work to but to do that you have to identify and fast-track characters who make IC sense to do so with. Even if you play an uncaring or 'mean' GL ICly, these are things that are important to making sure the Guild operates at baseline so that you aren't responsible for literally Everything(tm) that happens in the Guild's domain.

(*Not necessarily 'rank 3' but someone who has a title, like Knight, Inquisitor, an opped Bard, licensed Merchant, etc).

I cannot second this enough. The best GL is the one who makes time to meet with its members, and that becomes less and less possible the bigger the guild grows. Delegation is nice and all, but we all want some of the face time with the boss, not just exchange the letters. It enables fun RP avenues (some shady and some not) and is just a nice feeling. All the worst, OOCly, times I've had in TI were when I was in a guild with an absentee GL who just delegated everything out and didn't bother to ever interact with members besides the few they delegated the work to.

[Dreams]

Let me offer the flip side here: Keep in mind that as a GL you should remember that every member you add to your guild also increases your workload. These are people who are going to need to be engaged with scenes and potentially have their promotion tracked and so on and so forth depending on your Guild's policy.

I am not familiar with how adding members increases a GL's workload. not disputing this, just trying to understand. is there somewhere I can read more about this?

Just like a job - the more employees, the more paychecks to handle, the more people you are responsible for, etc. Being a GL is no different - more people equals more obligation.

[phoenixdoll]

I apologise, it wasn't my original intent to lambast.

But it's a strange cultural thing to me, that skills can be locked behind guilds and guilds be so important for being able to improve mechanically, and that there isn't policy about how we should deny sponsorship or deny guild membership that I can see.

And yeah, okay, that's fair enough that there isn't policy around that!

I would ask everyone replying to please read my original post, as I feel that I had made the point better there.

I admit I'm not in a great headspace due to RL and I just want to apologise if I have ruffled feathers. That wasn't my intent. I think this game is worth caring about, I enjoy its community, and I like all of you.

Thanks.

[Dreams]

I apologise, it wasn't my original intent to lambast.

But it's a strange cultural thing to me, that skills can be locked behind guilds and guilds be so important for being able to improve mechanically, and that there isn't policy about how we should deny sponsorship or deny guild membership that I can see.

It is not the staff's intentions to make policies that affect how someone makes decisions ICly. They do not make policies on how someone should RP, nor will they answer questions on how people should RP in an IC sense.

So, there would not be policies on why or how sponsorship or guild membership should be denied or accepted, because those are IC decisions made by IC characters - and policies like that are OOC.

NOW, that said, if a GL wants to make IC policies about that, then they are welcome to for their specific guild - though they may be subject to change when there is a new GL. But, GLs aren't told how to run their guild by staff, generally, and that would include handling seekers.

[phoenixdoll]

That's fair.

I'm not saying every seeker should be admitted, either.

I think I was meaning to say two things on this topic. To ask whether just because you can do something IC, whether you should.

And also I suppose .. That I just think that while it's allowed to just say yes or no to someone (of course it is), that if your IC says to say yes, you should oocly try and push yourself to write rp where you say "yes and" or "yes but" as this is more interesting. If you ic would say no, to try and write "no, but" or even "no, and."

Everyone says they want to support cyans, and this is how I feel we can best support them. Not by just letting them into a guild because they're new - TI is a harsh setting and so giving someone an unthemely treatment is setting them up to be ooc disappointed and likely to quit when they inevitably butt up against the theme as other people have pointed out. I agree with this.

But I dunno, I always try and make sure I am giving players hooks. You can't guarantee that someone else will find something fun, of course. But every pose I write, I'm trying to write a story with other people. I'm trying to engage people I am playing with.

It's not on you to make sure that someone else has fun, but I do feel that we all should come at TI with an attitude that we are here to play a game together.. And so we should care if others have fun.

[nemovonfish]

It's a curious thing to say "It's unthemely to admit characters to a guild purely because it's what their parents did." in a game that also says "This is the position you were born in to, this is your station. If you deny it that is sinful and you are a heretic." In that kind of environment, "because my dad did it" should be a perfectly valid - and pious - reason to join a guild.

[mystry]

It's a curious thing to say "It's unthemely to admit characters to a guild purely because it's what their parents did." in a game that also says "This is the position you were born in to, this is your station. If you deny it that is sinful and you are a heretic." In that kind of environment, "because my dad did it" should be a perfectly valid - and pious - reason to join a guild.

I can understand that sentiment, and the desire to follow one's parent's footsteps. But there are IC factors that no one but the GL's of the guild in question (and a few inside that guild) are aware of that make this particular GL wish for a stronger reason than 'my parent did it'. I can't get into it without revealing IC info though, but maybe I can be vague enough and say that there were people who got in based on that motivation in the past, and they didn't work out in a very public, very damaging way.

[OneWing]

There is just one big problem that people seem to forget.

Almost all of the helpfiles for cadets, pages, students, acolytes, apprentices I have found and read, list that people are also there to learn. To learn how to behave properly, to find their motivations and development... There are many other vNPC around, people that may also lack motivation, diligence, faith and much more. From corrupt cadets and Reeves to foolish and misinterpreting acolytes. I, as a player, honestly feel that those reasons I read here for the refusal of that cyan, are concerns that should prevent a promotion to something higher than a student/page/cadet/apprentice/acolyte and not a complete refusal to join a guild, being a GL is also a voluntary position and if that extra work is not for you, then maybe it might be right to step down, over wanting to have that power for your OOC satisfaction.

Cyans are also character that are still growing and settling in. My characters and their backstories are often unfinished at their entirety until at least about two hundred hours in because new things may arise that I did not anticipate and that need to be incorporated, or because more motivations need to be made up, reason for the personality to be as it is to refining it properly as new knowledge comes by that simply had not been seen or found before.