Log of OOC Meeting 2021-07-31

[Taunya]

Kinaed states, "Today's Agenda is:

   - Staff Updates
   - Player Heartbeat
   - Player Topics

Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today? If you register a topic, please pre-write it so you're ready to present it when called upon."

Kinaed starts editing a note. (This is an OOC action)

Kinaed finishes her note.

Deedee looks around.

Kinaed queries, "No topics?"

Dreams pets the crickets.

Kinaed claims, "Okay, moving on to Staff Updates :)"

Kinaed claims, "Last week, I worked on the Murder Mystery Dinner. It's now going to be August 14th right after OOC Chat."

Kinaed states, "Thank you to all players who volunteered to play NPCs."

Kinaed states, "Or play themselves as an actor in the event."

Souless claims, "I think I have a topic in mind, when that happens. Just hit me."

Kinaed states, "Also a big thanks to the Troubadours for being willing to sponsor the event."

Kinaed states, "I'll get the announcements out today before I wrap up my day."

Kinaed claims to Souless, "Thanks :) Please pre-write your topic. I've got your name on the lsit"

Kinaed muses to Eos, "Want to go next?"

Kinaed has transferred Sarathi.  [OOC]

Temi gives a little cake topped with a bouquet of small, sugar flowers to Sarathi.

Kinaed has transferred Anonymous.  [OOC]

Temi gives a little cake topped with a bouquet of small, sugar flowers to Anonymous.

Anonymous claims, "Yessss... offer your cake unto me."

Eos claims, "I did some more app in packages and helped with requests."

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed states to Eos, "Thank you. :)"

Sarathi sits down and rests.

Deedee claims, "Sorry the Physicians' packages seem so complicated. never really thought about how much stuff we have."

Xolorion sits down and rests.

Trajen blinks like an owl to keep from going idle

Anonymous has lost link.
Sarathi has lost link.

Kinaed claims to Ghed, "You're up :)"

Sarathi has reconnected.

Anonymous has reconnected.

Ghed says, "I've been very active this week, beyond the usual workload of recommends and phomes. I updated and halved the timeline helpfiles into two with Theodora's help, did a few minor puppets, and a fair bit of mob progging. My next Staff Plot (different from Kinaed's) is starting to unfold, I hope you have had a little fun with it! I also retouched some helpfiles, including staff-only, and learned how to create new crafts."

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed claims, "Thanks :)"

Trajen claps for Ghed and EOS

Eos claims, "Not much more complicated really :)"

Kinaed declaims to Temi, "Lucky last :) You're up!"

Dreams states to Ghed, "Fancy. Thanks for all of the work."

Temi says, "Arfaid I haven't made a lot of progress this week.  Starting to get busy for the Summer with stuff going on, and was gone last weekend, and will be gone again next.  No new crafts or skill quests this week, but Ghed and I did spend some time discussing expanding chandlery to 75"

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Kinaed states, "Everyone deserves a break now and again :)"

Ghed says, "Lies. Temi answers my questions over Discord while she's at work"

Ghed claims, "Every. single. day"

Kinaed nods at Ghed.

Eos says, "Mine too"

Kinaed states, "Mine too, for that matter."

Trajen claps for Temi

Ghed claps for Temi.

Temi grins.

Kinaed states, "Okay, that's it for Staff Updates."

Temi says, "Only the ones I can do without logging in, anyway."

Dreams notes that she should start asking Temi random questions over discord during the day. Yep.

Kinaed questions, "Next on the Agenda - Player Heartbeat! How was the game for you last week, folks?"

Souless says, "Really, really exciting, honestly. "

Dreams states, "Wasn't in much, admittedly. Had a lot going on IRL."

Kinaed claims, "That's great to hear :)"

Kinaed nods at Dreams.

Deedee claims, "I've been a bit preoccupied unfortunately. Had a few good scenes though"

Trajen claims, "Great"

Kinaed states to Dreams, "Happens."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Eos has lost link.

Kinaed smiles at Trajen.

Dreams says to Kinaed, "Indeed."

Souless says, "Made some really exciting RP connections that hold potential to grow and blossom into so, so much more."

Kinaed says to Souless, "I hope they bear fruit :)"

Xolorion declares, "I've had a few great scenes, and I was really psyched to net a couple of recommends, too!"

Eos has reconnected.

Kinaed smiles at Xolorion.

Kinaed claims, "That's awesome."

Kinaed questions, "Is there anything shitting anyone that they want staff to know about or keep front of mind?"

Kinaed states, "I love it when that question gets silence :)"

Temi grins.

Emote what?

Emote what?

Raspberries .

Souless grins.

Kinaed states, "Alrighty then. This moves us to Player Topics :)"

Kinaed asks of Souless, "You're up :) Won't you introduce us to your topic?"

Souless wonders, "Sort of what I have in mind is wondering how we can brainstorm ways to shift the focus a bit away from PvP to a bit more PvP. There has to be ways that player executions only really happen when someone has actively been disruptive to the community, (ICly), and has caused specific PvP drama by their choice. Something of a shift, to having only the mages who actively summon demons and cause a ruckus, to be sent to the pyre. Only the thieves who aggressively bully and exploit and extort people, to be lashed, and punished.
 
That said, I don't want to stray away from combat skills and adventure being a focus for the game. I would -love- for there to be rare instances where the Knights run into a dangerous bit of demon summoning mages, so begrudgingly send for the Manus/Sanctum and ask for help getting around the arcane wards, so they can storm the castle and kill the evil mages, and leave the less-than-evil mages be. For now. Maybe add some vNPC bandits on the roads, expand the outter map a bit, add some hovels both in and out of the city, of witches for the Knights to take down. Or thugs, causing trouble, vNPCs just populating when lawfulness is low, causing trouble.
 
Thoughts?"

Kinaed wonders, "You mean to shive to PVE?"

Souless trails off, "Excuse. Away from PvP, to PvE, ye..."

Souless states, "There is a derp in my brain. One moment, lemme fish that out."

Kinaed smiles.

Kinaed declares, "All good!"

Kinaed is still reading.

Deedee says, "Well, I think there should be more PvE options, as I brought up last time"

Kinaed states, "I agree that we'd do well with more PvE, yeah."

Souless says, "Yeah, sorry.. Big read."

Sparkles states, "I do think a bit more PvE in some matter would help buffer against the meta of 'something bad happened therefore it must be players and I can figure out exactly whom amongst this small selection'"

Dreams claims, "I'm not sure if shifting to PvE as far as mages are concerned is... thematic? I mean, they already have to have pretty solid proof (or alternative IC reasonings), but I don't see it shifting away from pyring known mages. That's well established in theme."

Souless questions, "Aren't we the arbiters of the game, though?"

Souless states, "I mean, we, and staff."

Kinaed states, "I think this is why quests and plots run by staff are so successful. The big issue we have is that it's hard to do 'reoccuring PvE' or automated PvE well, so it tends to be time/labour intensive for staff."

Ghed claims, "Mages are evil"

Eos nods.

Tasker states, "WHAT"

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Souless says, "Subjectively."

Dreams says, "I don't see mages not being pyred. I just don't. I'm sorry. No matter what we try to change - that is firmly established."

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Ghed eyes Trajen warily

Ghed says, "Oops"

A male voice claims, "It would be cool if people could actually rp as mages more, but I dunno if pve is the biggest thing."

Kinaed claims, "Well, we have had some recent interest from new players in our Storyteller system."

Souless trails off, "The issue is, that mages interacting with the grid, instead of locking themselves in their towers, and causing some lead to the dissolving of the Manus, as happened last time..."

Trajen looks around like nothing happened

Deedee claims, "My reason for wanting more PvE is PvP can get out of hand since there's so few opportunities."

Eos trails off, "Yea when we were asked to run criminals we had that exact issue, we don't have the time to do that regularly. Which is why we had the idea of pre-packaged STs so players could run these things but those seem very unpopular so... I don't know HOW to do it"

Kinaed claims, "And I know some of our staff are happy to puppet mobs and do small things now and again as they have time."

Souless states, "Is because there is SO much risk in RPing magey things."

Deedee queries, "If there's more opportunities with PvE to do their respective roles, I think there'll be less over... overness?"

Kinaed asks, "Oh, did anyone try out the invite command recently to see how the 'consensual' RP would go between mages and foes?"

Souless claims, "Granted, I would -love- to be able to puppet a vNPC, too."

Souless says, "Not really."

Tasker says, "Totally forgot to try that. I've been pretty busy this past week."

Kinaed says, "Players can innately puppet vNPCs within the bounds of not using it for personal advantage."

Souless muses, "Can they?"

Anonymous says, "I tend to be in favor of PvE elements, and especially anything that moves away from mages being considered instant firewood. Then again, I am an outlier, and am -perfectly- happy to see theme evolve into a more moderate outlook on magic. But my opinion is by no means common."

Kinaed says, "It's perfectly fine to RP a retainer, or Lysander at the Queen's."

Kinaed says, "You just can't have them take your side in a fight, for example."

Souless claims, "I don't think you are an outlier there, anon. I agree with you."

Kinaed questions, "Do we have a forum thread for PvE ideas?"

Souless asks, "Could we puppet like, a thug, bandit, or witch, etc?"

Lysander picks up a bottle and smashes it over Tasker's head, leaping to Anonymous's defense! [Anonymous]

Kinaed nods at Souless.

Tasker says, "Oh god no"

Anonymous says, "That's right atsker. You're screwed now."

Trajen lols

Kinaed states, "So long as it doesn't give someone an advantage."

Anonymous states, "You got LYSANDER on your ass"

Temi says, "Anything that needs more than echoes, you'd certainly be welcome to do with the story system, and we can help with that stuff"

Souless states, "Fair."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Tasker states, "Reminds me of when Lysander PK'd a Reeve once years ago because they tried to grapple someone in his presence."

Raspberries asks, "How old is Lysander now?"

Tasker claims, "That was during the old combat code with the weird syntax "

Anonymous says, "Lysander is secretly a badass. You don't mess with Lysander."

Eos snorts.

Kinaed claims, "Odd that Lysander fellow gets away with murder. Should be an investigation, I say."

Souless says, "I don't know, those are my thoughts on the subject. "

Kinaed nods at Tasker.

Dreams states, "Lysander never ages. I swear, he's a mage. He's been here forever."

Anonymous says, "Hey now, look, there's a very good reason that the Queens was one of the few buildings to survive that big flood, and it damn sure wasn't because its built well."

Ghed states, "Maybe Lysander is just a title"

Ghed states, "Hereditary"

Kinaed says to Souless, "I think you have broad agreement and a bit of a 'but how do we do this well' quandary"

Tasker questions, "Like batman?"

Kinaed says, "We're keen to hear ideas."

Eos nods.

Temi claims, "When I redid the Bear and Boar for Confession Alley, I did add lore about it being Klaus Jr"

Dreams states, "Every son of Lysander is also Lysander, and they just swap out. Never a daughter."
Temi grins.

Kinaed claims, "I think I'd like to open a thread on the forums so that we can collect the ideas in one place."

Souless claims, "If we keep this theme of mages being instant firewood, then we'll only ever have mages locked away in Private RP, and never interacting with the grid."

Deedee muses, "Wasn't there a daughter who ran it for a while?"

Souless claims, "And, yes, that's true."

Sparkles wonders, "I mean in theory a mage should be more than just ... magic time, right? "

Kinaed claims, "Honestly, mages locked away has happened in the past, but by and large, there's usually plenty of mages interacting."

Temi says, "I think we're open to adding more PvE, but probably less keen to just remove PvP tensions.  Having that option for people who want to take it up is I think a good thing"

Raspberries states, "A note"

Anonymous claims, "Mages tend to interact most with other mages. Not necessarily on-grid"

Kinaed states, "And I don't think that mages should have the burden of being the game's entire focus of IC antagonist play either."

Dreams claims, "That would be a HUGE change in theme. Like, huge."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Raspberries claims, "If you get pyred, you automagically get full rpxp refund"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Kinaed says, "That's true."

Anonymous says, "Yeah... I don't really care about rpxp."

Dreams says, "Pyring gives huge RP bonuses, yeah."

Kinaed states, "Same if you get executed by the Reeves"

Souless states, "Sure, but you also completely lose those opportunities for that character arc you've spent months/years/etc building."

Kinaed claims, "Regardless, it's unlikely that we'll remove the risk of death for playing a mage. Right now, that is a core play item."

Dreams says, "And it's a clear warning in Chargen when you choose a mage."

Temi states, "It is part of the way mages have been balanced for what they can do."

Temi nods.

Kinaed says, "I've seen people spend months or years building a character arc, then just stagnating. At least a death in a story is momentum."

Souless says, "I'm not saying completely nix the danger all together."

Dreams states, "Mages also get very large bonuses to death xp percentages that regular characters don't get, because of the risk they are taking by making a mage."

Trajen asks "were all those people in the graveyard," gulp "real people?"

Souless claims, "Just ease back on it a bit."

Anonymous claims, "Yes"

Temi claims, "Not all of them, but most."

Sparkles states, "There are some NPCs in there I think, but overall, yeah."

Dreams states, "If it becomes "safer" to play a mage, I think those little 'bonuses' should go away."

Temi nods at Sparkles.

Eos claims, "Real characters, not the players I must say"

Souless states, "That's fine by me."

Anonymous claims, "Okay, great. I'd instantly sacrifice bonuses to recommend level to make it safer to play a mage. Or less immediate death sentence even if you aren't an evil character."

Kinaed states, "Honestly, we get less than one pyring a month, and probably less than five the entirety of last year. So I suspect the sense of fear and trepidation is greater than the reality."

Souless nods an agreement with dream. 

Civetta wonders, "If you die in TI you die in real life?"

Anonymous says to Kinaed, "That's mostly because the mages on grid right now kind of sort of know how to not be immediately caught, and the Order is always undermanned."

Eos muses, "Yea we haven't had a pyring in... How many months now?"
Temi claims to Civetta, "Have never seen an example of such."

Dreams says, "I have died in TI. I did not die in real life. I promise."

Temi grins.

Dreams claims, "I haev died in TI more than once. Years ago, and then about a year ago."

Souless states, "I agree with anon."

Kinaed claims, "I've been murdered at least 3 times on TI."

Raspberries states, "Almost Civetta. You get brighter side of life stuck in your head for a week or so"

Dreams trails off, "Yeah, both of mine were murders..."

Kinaed states, "All 3 mages, only one to the pyre."

Souless states, "Pyres aren't happening because the mages on grid are being more sneaky/scared to interact with the grid much."

A male voice claims, "Yeah, pretty much just fear I'd say. It's so engrained in the lore that you need to be afraid that uh... it's sorta seen as an IC necessity, from what I gathered."

Kinaed claims, "Interestingly, I was more often murdered by other mages than the Order."

Tasker claims, "I'd not say they are scared to interact with the grid"

Temi claims, "Sneaky is thematic."

Anonymous says, "There have been quite a few interactions with the grid as of late"

Tasker claims, "But there is very little benefit of causing mischief without some greater goal"

Anonymous claims, "That I've noticed"

Tasker says, "Because one mistake and you might get moidered"

Dreams claims, "I think you are mistaken. There are mages that are VERY much ingrained in the grid. They are just good at hiding it, and you probably don't realize. Not all mages are hiding away."

Souless says, "That's what I'm getting at, yeah, Tasker."

Kinaed claims, "I don't think we actualyl want to see overt mischief. It's so much paperwork."

A male voice says, "..."

Raspberries wants to see overt mischief.

Kinaed states, "I mean, some here and there is fine, but when we have a mage on the loose for 3-4 OOC weeks just murdering people rampantly, it gets old fast."

Anonymous claims, "When I think of mischief, I don't think of rampagaing murder sprees, tbh."

Souless states, "That's not at all what I'm suggesting, Kin."

Anonymous states, "I think of... stealing Lans's sword."

Dreams says, "Yeah, we did have that for a while a year ago."

Violet sneezes loudly.

Tasker says, "It's good to be spooky on grid every now and again to remind people that Mages are not a myth, put putting your character at risk to do something not all that impactful in the grand scheme of things isn't very fun"

Souless says, "Absolutely, if someone is murdering people and causing a scene, to the pyre with them."

Anonymous claims, "And leaving a very humorous poem about magic on the GI's desk."

Kinaed claims, "There's definitely a balance. Maybe we're leaning on the 'not enough' side at the moment, but I've also seen the other side, so."

Xolorion claims, "In a game where anonymity is your one and only shield to having your story deleted, I can see why people might not be motivated to rock the boat to make story."

Souless says, "But if a mage tries to sell someone a magical potion that could legitimately help them, they should be arrested if caught, not pyred."

Dreams states, "I still think the assumption of 'all mages are hiding' is incorrect. Very, very incorrect. There are some very active mages on grid. Even if they aren't being overtly magey at all times."

Kinaed says, "As I recall, by design, most if not all of the mage elements have a sort of 'communicate safely' kind of spell like becoming a shadow or something to interact with others."

Raspberries queries, "I think all do now?"

Kinaed says, "There's also a lot of other things people can do that aren't in your face or low risk"

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Temi says, "We tried to give each one a different flavor too"

Trajen claims, "I like how, when doing anything, you kinda are in the mindset of "how will this be percieved?" since it seems realistic/immersive to me."

Eos states, "Also we're sort of moving off topic"

Temi says, "We have at least specced one for each element, though not sure if they all got implemented yet"

Raspberries muses, "It was only the one topic yeah?"

Violet muses, "Did anyone end up trying to use invite for 'safe' RP, like we discussed last OOC meeting?"

Souless states, "Yeah, only my topic, really."

Violet says, "That seemed like a promising RP to have mage-y or criminal interaction that did not result in arrest, kidnapping, or killing"

Anonymous claims, "I wonder if you can use invite to bring an enemy to you,b ut then they send a messenger to another person, who can show up and murderizze you"

Violet says, "Anyone who enters the scene is bound to invite rules"

Kinaed says, "Well, the original note was that we want more PvE options - we all agree on that, but aren't really sure what or how. I'll create a forum post for that. The rest of the discussion is the value of antag RP and the sense that a lot of players on the mage side pervasively feel about magic being a death sentence."

Xolorion declares, "I did try to use the invite command, not for mage-y or criminal stuff, just a regular scene. But ran into that person already being in a scene, sadly!"

Kinaed says, "Which is a core game mechanic."

Kinaed nods at Xolorion.

Raspberries says, "I think one issue is that there's so many 'tells' that a new mage might not know are tells"

Kinaed muses, "I'd say try again or a few times to see how it goes?"

A male voice says, "The death sentence is the entire point, but people aren't really willing to, uh... well."

Kinaed states, "I think a lot of older players should be nice about tells, personally."

Eos says, "Incentivising antag play is something we wanted to discuss and are in discussion about it but other things came up that are ranking higher in priority rn"

A male voice says, "Hrm."

Raspberries claims, "I don't entirely blame them for not going after the easy pickings, when there's so few opportunities to do knightly/inquisitorly stuff"

Civetta states, "Tend to overlook the more subtle tells, especially for cyans, though seen people arrested for them before."

Raspberries claims, "Err"

Raspberries claims, "For going after"

Raspberries claims, "But it hurts retention"

Tasker claims, "A sort of catch and release agreement with Cyans or newbies would be good, unless it was something blatantly overt like shooting a fireball at the pope"

Deedee wonders, "Then you get a full pardon?"

Civetta states, "Emmerich could use a little peril."

Trajen queries, "Technically, couldn't a mage hide out, or be more open, on south side?"

Xolorion asks, "So about the invite command, is it just arrests/killing that aren't allowed with its use? What if you invited someone with the intention of being a big scary antagonist- such as robbing them but leaving them unharmed? Is that generally acceptable?"

Dreams claims, "I think asking knight and inquisitor players to intentionally ignore things is not kosher, either. Unless it is blatantly not magey - if it's magey, they are trained to recognize, and should not be OOCly criticized for doing so ICly."

Kinaed states, "If players don't want a death sentence to be the potentiality of their RP, they need to not select mage in chargen and opt out. It's stated clearly in chargen. It's in the name of the game. I agree that potentially we can prolong cat and mouse and look for more fulfilling ways to play, but I think that from any rational perspective, that's the game people signed up for playing when selecting a mage."

Kinaed says, "That said, selecting a non-mage can also lead to death."

Kinaed says, "On the whole, this is a non-consensual game with PK in it."

Ghed claims, "Give me QP and I will send a thief to shank you"

Anonymous states, "Give me QP and I will beat up the thief Ghed sends to shank you."

Violet says, "I have seen Knights/Inquisitors let cyans go with warnings or ignore minor tells to support new players"

Dreams claims to Ghed, "No. I hoard my QP. :-p"

Raspberries states, "Much like with stealth, there probably needs to be more explanation on what can out you"

Kinaed says to Xolorion, "With the invite command, PK and arrests are prohibited. I think that mugging and stealing is probably not okay either. I'll clarify that."

Tasker states, "Dying is fine if it's impactful and meaningful and it's the end of an arc, but if you're dying from something silly and the whole thing is a bit meh then that's just a big GUH feeling"

Anonymous claims to Trajen, "Also thematically, Southside is heavily religious and EXTREMELY anti-mage."

Deedee says, "Supposedly."

Anonymous says, "There are no thematically mage-friendly zones or what not, besides other mages (and sometimes they aren't so friendly either)"

Tasker claims, "Yeah, southside is no more safer than northside. "

Dreams trails off to Tasker, "I won't lie. Dying sucked. Especially being murdered. But... "

Anonymous nods at Deedee.

Dreams states, "Wasn't a mage. Hadn't done anything 'wrong'. Being a mage or a criminal isn't the only way to die."

Kinaed states, "I get that, but to some extent people need to take personal responsibility for their RP being impactful and meaningful on the whole so the 'guh' moments are just now and again issues. And no one tends to enjoy being PKed, ever."

Xolorion says, "Thanks Kinaed, would like some clarification on where the line is drawn. I think it could be a good tool for bad guys, but wouldn't want to give someone a nonlethal beatdown and then get in trouble for it because that's not the intention of the feature."

Anonymous claims, "Southside is SUPPOSED to be heavily anti-mage. Whether or not that's actually reflected is dependant on players"

Ghed nods.

Kinaed nods at Xolorion.

A male voice states, "Everywhere is anti-mage, including some mages. That's the point, but it's difficult to get meaningful rp around. Sometimes, any at all."

Anonymous states, "A person can't be anti-mage if you make them anti-alive. Just sayin'."

Xolorion snerks.

Violet claims, "I still feel as though astral should provide rpxp"

Souless claims, "Dunno. Guess I shared my two silver, here."

Deedee says, "Been a while since I've seen any necromancy"

Dreams states, "If 'difficult' means 'risky', then yes. It should be. Again, I feel that is thematic."

Eos says, "It SHOULD it's just bugged"

Violet claims, "Because that -is- technically the safe way for mages to RP"

A male voice claims, "Astral def gives xp"

Violet claims, "Oh dear :( Sadness Eos"

A male voice states, "It just doesnt show"

A male voice says, "Until you check acc post-scene when woken"

Souless says, "There is also only so much you can do with Astral RP."

Dreams claims, "Yeah, astral gives RPXP, just not active RP time."

Souless says, "It honestly takes -ages- to change gears between mage, and non-mage."

Tasker says, "Unless someone finds you in a coma in a closet and robs you"

Kinaed says, "I don't recall ever having that problem, even with my mage characters. The thing is, I didn't tend to make my RP primarily focused on trying to contrevene the 'secrecy' element of the game. Overt magery is not acceptable thematically, so I would tend to focus on things like bonding, making allies, etc."

Kinaed states, "If a person hides in a GL (whether it be a mage or a GL) and never goes out, they're not goign to have meaningful and fun RP."

Kinaed says, "For any reason."

Deedee questions, "GL?"

Deedee checks pockets for mages.

Dreams claims, "It's like any other character, honestly. If you spend a ton of time crafting, crafting, and only crafting, you are going to find it difficult to make meaningful RP relationships if you don't take the time to actually RP. Same with mages. If you mage, mage, mage, you have to rememeber to step back and do that social RP, too."

Kinaed states to Deedee, "Just pointing to a history of GLs hanging out in Guild Halls, then going "but I never have any fun RP" :)"

Kinaed claims, "Not any recent GLs"

Eos wonders, "Ohhh Astral gives XP? Nice to know"

Kinaed says, "But it's a trend that's just as valid for your mage element, thief element, as GLs - which I raised to contrast with antagonist RP in general."

Kinaed claims to Eos, "It's supposed to, but may be broken"

Tasker says, "It does, but the RPXP counter still shows as None."

Tasker states, "So you don't know what you're getting"

A male voice claims, "'Difficult' didn't mean risky, that wasn't the meaning at all. Difficult meant that some people just... don't wanna do stuff, and that's understandable  in the current climate."

Dreams says, "They don't want to do stuff because it's risky."

Eos says, "That's potentially a different bug then ty for clarifying"

Dreams says, "And puts their character at risk."

Civetta says, "Risky -and- not especially impactful"

Dreams nods.

Raspberries says, "I wonder if it not showing up on the counter is to prevent an OOC indicator that a mage is present"

Kinaed states, "That's correct, Raspberries. It's a hack of a bug fix that created a different effect."

Dreams states, "If they aren't in the astral and are just invis, it will show up."

Temi says, "I think the bigger problem, rather than not knowing what you're getting, is it not getting you to count as active"

Temi nods.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Sparkles is idle.

A male voice states, "The social rp is more the issue, like... general plot stuff. Mage-ing is pretty easy."

Dreams has been stalked by invis mage before.

Raspberries claims, "Not counting towards activity sounds like a big issue yes."

Sparkles is no longer idle.

Kinaed nods at Raspberries.

Temi nods.

Eos waves.

Eos states, "I must leave for a bit, migraines"

Temi claims, "I think it's easy for mages to still be socially involved, just less when they become known mages, which we've found harder to support"

Souless laughs.

Dreams states, "See, the social RP should be a given, honestly. Mages need to integrate with society, or be recluses. One of the two. If they choose the first, then the social RP with others would be how they integrate and establish themselves with 'non-mages'."

A gust of wind picks up and swirls around Eos, and when it settles, she is gone. [OOC]

Tasker claims, "Yeah, that would be great if it counted towards activity. Because it's still RP, so it should. If you're an outed mage it can sometimes be very difficult to remain codedly active due to the limited RP opportunities you get."

Dreams claims, "If you choose the latter, to be a recluse, the RP will be mostly mage RP. Activity is harder to keep up with. And yes, I know personally."

Deedee states, "The invite system might help with that- but you might still have problems getting someone to accept the invite"

Kinaed claims, "On the whole, we do want to make antagonistic RP feel better. We're interested in how we can improve that situation, and are keen to hear ideas - but yes, it's not likely to go so far as 'the Inquisition' no longer exists."

Kinaed nods at Deedee.

Souless claims, "I definitely feel like the latter part of my suggestion was wildly misread."

Tasker says, "I don't think we need to change the theme at all, just nudge the culture a bit to be more focused on storytelling and creating a lasting cat and mouse back and forth. It's more fun for both sides that way."

Kinaed wonders to Souless, "Apologies for that. Did you want to clarify?"

Souless states, "Yes. That."

Souless states, "What Tasker said."

Civetta trails off, "There was a time when antags were being very... toxic"

Sparkles claims, "The issue there is that people tend to blame the Order players for not 'fixing the problem' when they keep getting harassed by the same mage."

Dreams states, "Literally murder fests."

Tasker states, "From my experience in playing a Knight it sucks when you really, really easily capture someone and they offer no resistance because they know they're a gonner. Just feels cheap. I know that still persists to this day."

Civetta claims, "And I think the culture swung too far to the 'burn it all with fire as soon as it shows even a tiny bit'"

Kinaed claims, "I tend to agree that we should focus on storytelling."

Dreams states, "And that. If there is a cat and mouse situation, the IC viewpoint turns to, "The Order isn't doing their job, they need to be replaced.""

Kinaed muses, "How do we know when that is done well? Perhaps we can foster those things somehow?"

Kinaed nods at Dreams.

Civetta states, "And the pendulum just hasn't swung back the other way since, probably by virtue of demographic shift"

Tasker says, "I dunno, when both sides enjoy it and get something positive out of it."

Ghed queries to Kinaed, "Recommends?"

Souless says, "Mage goes to Noble, tries to sell Noble potion. Noble gets Mage arrested by the Order, Order slaps Mage on the wrist, takes away magic stuff, and puts them in jail for a while. Mage is released with the option to either repent, and not do magey stuff any more, get marked as a mage... OR go into hiding, recluse away and keep doing magey things."

Dreams queries, "For some reason, it's not, 'OMG, that mage is an awfully talented mage! Scary!' It's, 'The Order is incompetent! Why can't they catch them?'"

Temi says, "We do have extra recommend points for allowing a conflict to continue"

Tasker claims, "I've been enjoying the cat and mouse surrounding my character for a while, but it's easier for me because I'm a slippery bugger."

Souless claims, "A whole different story than; Mage goes to Noble, tries to sell Noble potion. Noble calls for the Order, Order burns Mage."

Kinaed nods at Ghed.

A male voice claims, "Having magic items sounds like death, that's pretty simple. I dunno if that's a possible alternative."

Dreams claims, "I don't think, 'release with the option to not do magey things anymore' fits theme."

A male voice states, "It would kinda dull the theme. 'we kill mages but only some of them, even if we know what they are'"

Dreams says, "Magery is an incurable disease. It doesn't work that way."

Tasker says, "That is if you tell the noble it was magic"

Souless shrugs.

Temi states, "No real issues with Inquisitors who decide just having items isn't proof someone is a mage, but to keep an eye on them"

Deedee claims, "Burning IS the cure"

A male voice says, "More reasonably knowing what they are, though... that's the issue, I'd reckon."

Dreams states to Deedee, "Exactly."

Sparkles states, "I do think sometimes people instantly 'know' something is magic even if their char would have no real idea though."

Ghed claims, "Inquisitors have, since I've been on TI, been rather indulgent"

Anonymous states, "There are people who are perfectly willing to burn people with 0 tangible proof."

Kinaed nods at Sparkles.

Trajen asks, "Whyyy was that funny?"

Anonymous claims, "As I know with excruciatingly personal experience."

Dreams states, "Yeah, but that GI didn't last long."

Deedee claims, "Let the lord of the springs sort them out."

Dreams claims, "Like, seriously, was removed within a few weeks."

Tasker claims, "Inquisitors are very scurry. Hopefully I get to play one, one day."

Dreams states, "So, we can't base everything around the decisions of one player."

Anonymous states, "This ist rue. But it wasn't because they murdered a character with no proof"

Anonymous states, "They were removed for entirely different reasons, and them being a murder-git wasn't one of them."

Kinaed says, "From what I can tell, in the last year, there were 2 arrests."

Trajen claims, "I'm looking forward to trying every class eventually"

Souless asks, "I wonder why that might be?"

Dreams says to Anonymous, "You still can't base everything on one person that held the office for three weeks."

Kinaed says, "I have personally heard of very recent cases of players having a go at Order members because they didn't agree with how 'lax' or 'inactive' the Order was."

Kinaed claims, "So I do think this is a sense of fear more than reality talking."

Kinaed claims, "I do think that we should focus more on storytelling."

Anonymous claims, "I can when it was made very clear by several order members, not just that GI, that proof was not a thing they needed. Quote 'just suspicion is enough'."

Kinaed says, "I think that's a great point - because whether you play an antagonist or a member of the Reeves/Order, you're a player."

Kinaed states, "And the game should be fun."

Temi says, "The last mage I had had to try very, very hard to get burned."

Temi grins.

Ghed states to Anonymous, "Reasonable doubt, not 'just suspicion'"

Raspberries muses, "Anyone have something brighter to end the chat with? 2 minutes left"

Ghed claims, "Else I wager half the pbase would be dead"

A male voice states, "I'd agree, I just make mention that said fear -does- hinder storytelling, to an extreme degree. I dunno if it's something that anything can be done about, other than encourage people to make the choice to play their roles around others of the same role."

Souless states, "I agree with voicey, here."

Ghed says, "Maybe an ST where you play one-shot people, like Vandago in the 320's"

Kinaed nods at Ghed.

Ghed says, "OH I FORGET"

Ghed states, "I wrote a new draft for a ST system, like pen-and-paper RPG like"

Souless says, "Someone definitely did post a vague fantasy around that."

Ghed declares, "You guys want to see it?!"

Deedee claims, "Sure"

Crickets.

Trajen states, "I'd be glad"

Souless says, "Sure. :)"

Violet declares, "Sure!"

A male voice muses, "QP seems to be a universal motivator. Why not for antagonistic rp that does -not- harm other players, if that is seen as needed, which it seems to be?"

Kinaed declaims, "It's the top of the hour. I've been asked to do a closing PSA: Council meeting tomorrow!"

Tasker declaims, "And my axe!"

Deedee I'll sharpen my ax--- hey

Kinaed claims, "I'll raise a forum topic post for people to discuss more PvE ideas."

Kinaed claims, "Thanks for attending this week's OOC Chat :)"

Raspberries waves.

Kinaed says, "I hope to see everyone next week, and thank everyone for speaking up about their thoughts and needs in this forum."

Raspberries says, "Oh"

Ghed says, "Https://tinyurl.com/TISTRules"

Ghed claims, "Clickkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"

Kinaed trails off, "Retrans in 3..."

Kinaed trails off, "2..."

Tasker claims, "ITS A VIRUS"

Kinaed trails off, "1..."

Deedee waves.