~Great Deeds~

[Dice]

I agree with Geras. All sorts of ways to obtain nobility fall out of possibility if you require that the great deed be open, obvious and well-known.

I don't mind requiring that there BE a great deed - and by requiring that the staff know about it and approve it, that preserves the check so people aren't getting ennobled willy-nilly.

But requiring that the great deed be public really cuts the legs out from under a lot of potential RP. I can see there being a requirement that there is SOME IC reason, but I don't think it should have to be as stringent as the OOC one.

OOCly, the controlling factor is to make sure being ennobled is a rare thing that only is earned by truly going above and beyond; ICly, the controlling factor is the acquiescence of the other nobles, who have a wide range of realistic potential reactions.

Thus it's very reasonable to say that the nobles would accept, if not necessarily like, a reason for an ennoblement that wasn't for a single great deed that could live in legend. And not only is it reasonable, it permits all sorts of covert/clandestine 'great deeds' that otherwise couldn't count.

[Eris]

Yeah, I have to agree with both Geras and Dice. Having a requirement to publicly announce deeds ICly deters players from creating any sort of covert character, and i think it undermines a really interesting and important part of the game: what goes on behind closed doors.

[Kinaed]

I don't mind if the deeds aren't known upon request, but I strongly want the accepted reasons to be disclosed to the public. The fact is that being ennobled on a game with our theme and limited pbase is a major, particularly exclusive reward, so it's important in my mind for people to see the reason it happened.

[Geras]

Having them default to known but left unknown upon request seems like a pretty good compromise actually.

[Dice]

I would be super happy with this compromise myself, but I think that's not what Kin was suggesting. Though... I'm not sure, actually!

But yeah, I can say from my perspective (hopefully even accounting for bias) I'd rather not know and open up the chance for covert deeds, vs. always know and lose that chance.

[Vaelius]

Most of the above examples seem to require the following things: A) Access to the appropriate clique. B) Extraordinary luck.

I suggest making sufficiently advanced 'Prestige' considered a great deed. Also, actions that are in line with the Church Dogma (they need not be intended to be) such as significant charity or peity. The sort of things that would get you declared a Saint if you were dead.

'Great Deeds' should not be synonymous with 'heroism' since heroism is already synonymous with 'dumb luck.' ;)

[Kinaed]

We don't actually have a prestige stat in the game to measure that. How would you reckon it could work?

[Geras]

Support is pretty similar to prestige...

[Vaelius]

Support is pretty similar to prestige...

I meant support. x.x I am not good with the naming things and the remembering of the way things are called. :(

[Kinaed]

Hmm, the problem I see with using support is that it is, inheritently, a popularity contest.

Influence in the game (which we're building atm, and certainly takes support into account) isn't just about who likes you, however. It includes things like accumulated wealth, the status of the people who support you (as opposed to just the basic support totals) and the like. I'd probably look to influence for this in the future, if we were going to either make it a prereq of ennobling or a command one can use to ennoble one's self if specific pieces fall into place.

Basically, I see the support system, which is a feed-in for Influence, really, as being a bit immature for this purpose, though I definitely see where you guys are coming from sicne it's the only system in game at this time that gets to that point - and that point is definitely appropriate to take into consideration when ennobling someone.