I also agree that people should RP their stats and character as designed, but I'm not sure how we can regulate it. Perspectives being as they are, my idea of reasonable for a 60 int isn't necessarily the same as Temi's or Takta's, and in specific instances where someone has something at stake... well, ouch.
I'd love to see or hear of positive ways we can go towards encouraging people to align their characters more with their statistics though.
The Inquisition, The Unfair - Policy
I used to do this a lot more in contentious situations on the old incarnation of TI, but in interrogation situations players CAN do stat contests against the other player.
Example:
Interrogation is going on. You want to lie (or maybe charm them, win them over, whatever) -- stat check your CHA against their INT or WIS.
Search of your things, they find a journal or something that might be a clue might not. Stat check your luck vs INT or WIS. If they win, you truthfully explain the clue OOCly or ICly so they understand it. You win, they don't get it.
I've also sometimes acted/performed when I'm lying or in a contentious situation as well. If your acting skill is high, that should be sufficient to prove you can lie, as long as people aren't going to be OOCly weird about knowing you're acting code-wise. (again, can do a stat check).
You want to try to slip out of an arrest or kidnapping - stat contest your dex against theirs, if you win you get to duck and run (doesn't mean you'll be successful at the escape, mind you, just that you get a chance to either leave or go for your weapon or whatever).
Some people don't really like that kind of thing (let me decide if I believe it or not!) but it can help guide RP in those situations, so long as both parties are willing to stay true to however the stats play out.
As to OOC knowledge leaking in - it's a problem everywhere. I've definitely been in situations where people were ticking off the heights of players and things, which is even more ridiculous because there wasn't a really defined height system at the time. The only thing you can really do is just point out the ridiculousness of such a thing ICly. If you get targeted for that reason, I think that's a fair complaint to staff (and if that's the bulk of the evidence for the arrest, it should be reversed with anything learned from the search nulled).
Example:
Interrogation is going on. You want to lie (or maybe charm them, win them over, whatever) -- stat check your CHA against their INT or WIS.
Search of your things, they find a journal or something that might be a clue might not. Stat check your luck vs INT or WIS. If they win, you truthfully explain the clue OOCly or ICly so they understand it. You win, they don't get it.
I've also sometimes acted/performed when I'm lying or in a contentious situation as well. If your acting skill is high, that should be sufficient to prove you can lie, as long as people aren't going to be OOCly weird about knowing you're acting code-wise. (again, can do a stat check).
You want to try to slip out of an arrest or kidnapping - stat contest your dex against theirs, if you win you get to duck and run (doesn't mean you'll be successful at the escape, mind you, just that you get a chance to either leave or go for your weapon or whatever).
Some people don't really like that kind of thing (let me decide if I believe it or not!) but it can help guide RP in those situations, so long as both parties are willing to stay true to however the stats play out.
As to OOC knowledge leaking in - it's a problem everywhere. I've definitely been in situations where people were ticking off the heights of players and things, which is even more ridiculous because there wasn't a really defined height system at the time. The only thing you can really do is just point out the ridiculousness of such a thing ICly. If you get targeted for that reason, I think that's a fair complaint to staff (and if that's the bulk of the evidence for the arrest, it should be reversed with anything learned from the search nulled).
Stat contests are great, but only in certain situations IMHO. Just cause my int is higher than yours doesn't mean I should get away with a terrible lie. Just cause my dex is higher than yours doesn't mean I can slip out of my bindings and run away even though both my legs are broken and so are my arms.
Not disagreeing with you wimple... just kind of generally commenting on how stat contests are a best only a partial solution.
Not disagreeing with you wimple... just kind of generally commenting on how stat contests are a best only a partial solution.
That's just bad RP, Geras. Which is essentially what we're trying to counter (acting smarter than you are, etc.) There's always some way around a rule or policy or acting with bad RP when you shouldn't. Nothing is going to stop that and there isn't really a way to regulate it, beyond flagging an imm if bad RP is seriously making an impact on your character.
When I did a stat contest to see if I could slip by someone, I'd talked my way out of my confinements first, so I was unfettered. In my case, I won the contest, but wound up being recaptured a few rooms later because there was no way out. Obviously, I wouldn't try something like that with my legs broken (nor would I agree to such a contest if the other person had theirs broken and I was the captor).
The thing with lies doesn't always work either - sometimes there is direct IC knowledge to counter something.
Anyway, it's not something I see people do often, or at all, but it's a way to force stats into the issue if players are concerned about people acting above/beyond their stats. I know a lot of people don't like it (because they want decide how their character would respond), but it's an option for players who don't think people are responding appropriately, anyway, so long as they don't mind the gamble that happens if they lose the contest.
When I did a stat contest to see if I could slip by someone, I'd talked my way out of my confinements first, so I was unfettered. In my case, I won the contest, but wound up being recaptured a few rooms later because there was no way out. Obviously, I wouldn't try something like that with my legs broken (nor would I agree to such a contest if the other person had theirs broken and I was the captor).
The thing with lies doesn't always work either - sometimes there is direct IC knowledge to counter something.
Anyway, it's not something I see people do often, or at all, but it's a way to force stats into the issue if players are concerned about people acting above/beyond their stats. I know a lot of people don't like it (because they want decide how their character would respond), but it's an option for players who don't think people are responding appropriately, anyway, so long as they don't mind the gamble that happens if they lose the contest.
I know people want to decide how their character will respond, but if we feel that people aren't generally doing it "right", might we perhaps consider a policy regarding a handshake system, then a forced use of contest? It's a bit like combat, but only social...
Eg,
We standardize intiation:
Player X, OOCly approach Player Y and say: I think you're lying or I want to know if you're lying etc. I'm not really getting any guidance from this RP, so I'd like to initiate a contest to request more detail in your next emote.
We standardize rules of acceptance:
Player Y: I don't like that, but policy says I must use contest to determine this outcome. However, since you approached me, it's my right to choose the stats, so it's your wisdom against my charisma. Hope you're smart, because I'm gorgeous.
We standardize outcome:
Player X: *Wince* Agreed. So we recall, each of our next emotes must reflect the results of the contest. If you win, you may demonstrate how your character appears utterly guileless. If I win, you demonstrate something of value to me, and if we tie, then you as the defender win, but the moderated results in the emote should be fuzzy. Me must both desc note the contest and the following emotes. Done.
Eg,
We standardize intiation:
Player X, OOCly approach Player Y and say: I think you're lying or I want to know if you're lying etc. I'm not really getting any guidance from this RP, so I'd like to initiate a contest to request more detail in your next emote.
We standardize rules of acceptance:
Player Y: I don't like that, but policy says I must use contest to determine this outcome. However, since you approached me, it's my right to choose the stats, so it's your wisdom against my charisma. Hope you're smart, because I'm gorgeous.
We standardize outcome:
Player X: *Wince* Agreed. So we recall, each of our next emotes must reflect the results of the contest. If you win, you may demonstrate how your character appears utterly guileless. If I win, you demonstrate something of value to me, and if we tie, then you as the defender win, but the moderated results in the emote should be fuzzy. Me must both desc note the contest and the following emotes. Done.
I see what I have started here. I was more on the lines of perhaps reminding people that not everyone is super detective with all the answers to everything, and using a Pluto based explanation to come up with a astrology based synapses on any given situation, just because you are aware on an OOC level is sorta just flat out twinkish IMHO. Maybe i was just hoping to have people on their own realize that your not going to outsmart someone who has lets say....80 int, if your pushing 50 or 60, yet it seems people still do.
If contesting stats is the only way to really solve such an issue, than fine. My only concern is that as previously stated, alot of people wont like the idea of not being able to play their character the way they see fit. I just find it odd that some people play absolutely oblivious to situations one minute, but have all the answers the next. Perhaps I am overlooking it and mayhaps, just maybe that is the RP portion of the spectrum I am not looking at.
If contesting stats is the only way to really solve such an issue, than fine. My only concern is that as previously stated, alot of people wont like the idea of not being able to play their character the way they see fit. I just find it odd that some people play absolutely oblivious to situations one minute, but have all the answers the next. Perhaps I am overlooking it and mayhaps, just maybe that is the RP portion of the spectrum I am not looking at.
I think, with stuff like this, when you're considering stats like intelligence with how a character is played, it gets really difficult.
Because, if you roleplay your character doing something downright stupid, then your character is doing something stupid. Regardless of stats. A contest shouldn't get you out of this. Same goes with any plots etc. If the lie is weak, if there is not enough evidence to back it up, then you're going to get caught out, regardless of stats.
As well, in a system where most of the people tend to raise the stats to max, rather than to what their character might icly actually be, this also makes it difficult.
However, I really don't have a solution to this, other than to remind people to consider what your character ICly is. Are they a fighter? Who focuses primarily on combat? Sparring at every opportunity? Are they super intelligent and regularly read books? Sit down, have a think about what your character really is and take it into consideration when you roleplay with the choices they make and the things they do.
Ultimately we all have to trust each other here, and I think with something like this, it can't be governed solely by stats. And in fact, it would be impossible to.
Because, if you roleplay your character doing something downright stupid, then your character is doing something stupid. Regardless of stats. A contest shouldn't get you out of this. Same goes with any plots etc. If the lie is weak, if there is not enough evidence to back it up, then you're going to get caught out, regardless of stats.
As well, in a system where most of the people tend to raise the stats to max, rather than to what their character might icly actually be, this also makes it difficult.
However, I really don't have a solution to this, other than to remind people to consider what your character ICly is. Are they a fighter? Who focuses primarily on combat? Sparring at every opportunity? Are they super intelligent and regularly read books? Sit down, have a think about what your character really is and take it into consideration when you roleplay with the choices they make and the things they do.
Ultimately we all have to trust each other here, and I think with something like this, it can't be governed solely by stats. And in fact, it would be impossible to.
Julea/Lien/Ashe/Adaline
I'm happy enough to leave off on it, but I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed at how little the contest command is used.
In my opinion, if you're being deceitful, etc, then you should give your RP partner the opportunity to catch it somehow. I don't know that people don't, but consider - we have instances of players infiltrating organizations, spying on people, etc, and how is anyone supposed to remotely know that their opponent isn't trustworthy short of OOC knowledge if they don't craft their emotes to allow for the possibility? I've seen huge, sweeping deaths over it, and whereas I trust the RPers involved to be good about their RP, I do have to question - did the characters that died ever have the opportunity to possibly figure out that there was something off about the situation... at all? I mean, sure maybe... but most likely not. It's too easy for players to play the perfect spy, etc, because all it comes down to is writing text in a certain way. The stakes are high - people die over it.
It's so hard to play a bad guy because who you can trust really comes down to who you OOCly trust to RP "realistically". The good guys are underhanded and evil by theme, remember? The Holy Order accuses people as they see fit, then finds the evidence to back up the accusation, not the other way around.
Well, it's dangerous the other way around too, good guys versus bad, but the "good guys" just have less to lose.
Anyway, !rant.
I know people RP well, and as well-meaning as possible. It's just my personal opinion that most people will fudge realistic to preserve their own skin, no matter how well intentioned they are. It's human survival instinct, and those reflexes are stoked during RP.
In my opinion, if you're being deceitful, etc, then you should give your RP partner the opportunity to catch it somehow. I don't know that people don't, but consider - we have instances of players infiltrating organizations, spying on people, etc, and how is anyone supposed to remotely know that their opponent isn't trustworthy short of OOC knowledge if they don't craft their emotes to allow for the possibility? I've seen huge, sweeping deaths over it, and whereas I trust the RPers involved to be good about their RP, I do have to question - did the characters that died ever have the opportunity to possibly figure out that there was something off about the situation... at all? I mean, sure maybe... but most likely not. It's too easy for players to play the perfect spy, etc, because all it comes down to is writing text in a certain way. The stakes are high - people die over it.
It's so hard to play a bad guy because who you can trust really comes down to who you OOCly trust to RP "realistically". The good guys are underhanded and evil by theme, remember? The Holy Order accuses people as they see fit, then finds the evidence to back up the accusation, not the other way around.
Well, it's dangerous the other way around too, good guys versus bad, but the "good guys" just have less to lose.
Anyway, !rant.
I know people RP well, and as well-meaning as possible. It's just my personal opinion that most people will fudge realistic to preserve their own skin, no matter how well intentioned they are. It's human survival instinct, and those reflexes are stoked during RP.
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