I really do think there's an issue that just restricting numbers can't fix, in that Adept slots cover 36-60. This is an absolutely huge range that doesn't really allow for granularity. Other than combat skills, most skills are going to function as well as you'll ever need them to at 60 and you get serious diminishing returns up to 75.
So I'd like to stump again for what I said earlier- Proficient slots, 37-46; Adept slots, 47-60; Master slots, 61+. We could also add Grandmaster slots, making Master 61-74 and GM 75+. This has another advantage in that the slots will naturally overlay the ranks they correspond to, removing a source of potential confusion.
In that case, I'd say something like:
Proficient slots: 4-8
Adept slots: 3-6
Master slots: 2-4
GM slots: 1 (or possibly 1-2? And 1 or 2 free languages depending)
Revisiting Learn Masters Slots - Any Interest?
Lol Kin, I c wut u did there.
I put my vote in for two, but that's just because I really like classes in my RPIs, for some odd reason. I just think we should specialize, and anything outside our spheres of specialization would cost an absurd amount of XP. But that's just me, and I'm not expecting it at all.
As for the problem... I still don't see one, but perhaps I'm not the best person to be arguing in this case, since I don't have a skill above 45 >.>
I put my vote in for two, but that's just because I really like classes in my RPIs, for some odd reason. I just think we should specialize, and anything outside our spheres of specialization would cost an absurd amount of XP. But that's just me, and I'm not expecting it at all.
As for the problem... I still don't see one, but perhaps I'm not the best person to be arguing in this case, since I don't have a skill above 45 >.>
Player of: Alexander ab Courtland
I just thought I'd add that I'm generally not a fan of the movement towards higher xp costs as a soft cap rather than harder caps. I know it's probably intended as a "pro-player" move, giving people more flexibility and whatnot, but I feel it puts new players at a bigger disadvantage, and emphasizes high xp generating low skill requirement RP paths rather than high skill requirement but low xp generating xp, which I don't think is ideal.
Under this new guildskill xp system (which I feel is kinda in the same vein as this thread) if you leave a guild or get booted from it, the XP consequences can be pretty dire too, which I think mixes code considerations with IC in a not ideal way. Maybe this could be addressed creatively - it seems like it should be solvable.
Anyways I've given more than my two cents here. Others really should chime in. Lots of votes here so I know others have opinions...
Under this new guildskill xp system (which I feel is kinda in the same vein as this thread) if you leave a guild or get booted from it, the XP consequences can be pretty dire too, which I think mixes code considerations with IC in a not ideal way. Maybe this could be addressed creatively - it seems like it should be solvable.
Anyways I've given more than my two cents here. Others really should chime in. Lots of votes here so I know others have opinions...
Right now, people are stuck in whatever guilds they pick from newbie hood. You might start as a merchant ordite, but if your character naturally progresses into a more combative role and you wish to be an Ordite Knight, you're pretty much heavily penalised for character progression.
May I suggest the change that to learn a skill you aren't a member of to cost x4 the normal XP. While if you learn a skill of your guild, then move one to something else instead of being docked so that it was like you were never in the guild, perhaps make it only x2. You have gone to the guild and RP'd out your skill progression (in most cases) I don't think that shouldn't count for nothing. Or if this is just to stop frivilous guild hopping, maybe have it as an QP purchasable option? 50QP and you can leave a guild with no repurcussions to your RPXP. I think that would promote better/more interesting RP for people to try to gather recommendations than scrabbling with a multitude of subpar emotes just to try and recover from their RPXP debt.
May I suggest the change that to learn a skill you aren't a member of to cost x4 the normal XP. While if you learn a skill of your guild, then move one to something else instead of being docked so that it was like you were never in the guild, perhaps make it only x2. You have gone to the guild and RP'd out your skill progression (in most cases) I don't think that shouldn't count for nothing. Or if this is just to stop frivilous guild hopping, maybe have it as an QP purchasable option? 50QP and you can leave a guild with no repurcussions to your RPXP. I think that would promote better/more interesting RP for people to try to gather recommendations than scrabbling with a multitude of subpar emotes just to try and recover from their RPXP debt.
The problem SlyViolin points out is very legitimate, I think.
One issue we have in moderating the effects is that skill costs are floating, e.g., it can't just affect only new ranks or anything like this.
I'd like to see the main cost reduced to x3, and a flag added for guilds you were ONCE in to reduce it to 2x. That's still a significant barrier to keep people from joining a guild just to skill up and then leaving, but does something for people who have established RP that happened to changed.
Full disclosure: I just got hit with a -230,000 XP bill (that is not a typo) due to this change, because my long-lived PC recently left a guild due to an evolution in his RP. I had really wanted to keep the skills as part of my RP, but I can't right now; the activity I can swing now means I'd be in XP debt for probably six months or more.
One issue we have in moderating the effects is that skill costs are floating, e.g., it can't just affect only new ranks or anything like this.
I'd like to see the main cost reduced to x3, and a flag added for guilds you were ONCE in to reduce it to 2x. That's still a significant barrier to keep people from joining a guild just to skill up and then leaving, but does something for people who have established RP that happened to changed.
Full disclosure: I just got hit with a -230,000 XP bill (that is not a typo) due to this change, because my long-lived PC recently left a guild due to an evolution in his RP. I had really wanted to keep the skills as part of my RP, but I can't right now; the activity I can swing now means I'd be in XP debt for probably six months or more.
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Onyxsoulle
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I'm actually okay with the way the skills WILL be handled, it honestly makes sense. However, the current bill(that most of us have, though some to an extreme, wow -230k) I am not a fan of. I think we SHOULD be charged the 4x xp from here on out, but NOT penalized for ranks we already have, since we did have to follow the guidelines of the way things were done before the revamp to get them to where we are at now. Just not a big fan of being charged for something I got a while back ago, under the new rule(though I do like the rule, again just not the current debt it has caused.)
I think this is why we need people to be more vocal at OOC meetings >.> Everybody at that meeting was all cool with this, saying hoorah hoorah, and then the forums fill with some mixed messages. I'd be pulling my hair out, as a staffer >.>
Admittedly, this probably should have gone through the forums in the first place for player reception, so people could voice their ideas.
Admittedly, this probably should have gone through the forums in the first place for player reception, so people could voice their ideas.
Player of: Alexander ab Courtland
I remember that my original suggestion was to make disguise code free or cheap for Troubadours but not to bar it entirely from others - to possibly just make it more expensive so that it could be a PERK for Troubs but not denied to others who might have reasonable uses for the skill. I prefer there to be as few restricted skills as possible so while I was initially against the proposed high price for guildskills, I've come around.
Counting myself as a new player here still, I've actually been pretty impressed with how much constructive criticism has been submitted on this subject versus outright complaining. It speaks really well of the community and is something I am especially grateful for, having recently left a game with a very toxic player/staff environment.
We may have been saved some discomfort by working out more of the wrinkles prior to implementation but sometimes it's better to just go for it and fix what breaks!
As far as my suggestion for fixing this goes...
As most if not all of us are now suffering negative XP, could we just have that amount credited back to our accounts? It's already spent, right? If it adjusts someone's death XP by a little, I'm not fussed - that's a character who has died to make story, I won't begrudge them a little bonus. That way players don't have to erase old RP to get in the black, and we're not all stalled on our stories. At least as I'm seeing it in my head right now, that won't create any new imbalance since these characters have already had their extra skills at their current ranks.
Going forward, I would definitely support some method of making the XP cost hurt less when someone has legitimately learned within a guild. I recognize that guilds need perks to stay relevant, but I'd prefer to support character growth and player creativity over the more regulated guild structure.
A command to show how much XP a guildskill costs if you're not in the guild would be a nice way to help people plan ahead.
Counting myself as a new player here still, I've actually been pretty impressed with how much constructive criticism has been submitted on this subject versus outright complaining. It speaks really well of the community and is something I am especially grateful for, having recently left a game with a very toxic player/staff environment.
We may have been saved some discomfort by working out more of the wrinkles prior to implementation but sometimes it's better to just go for it and fix what breaks!
As far as my suggestion for fixing this goes...
As most if not all of us are now suffering negative XP, could we just have that amount credited back to our accounts? It's already spent, right? If it adjusts someone's death XP by a little, I'm not fussed - that's a character who has died to make story, I won't begrudge them a little bonus. That way players don't have to erase old RP to get in the black, and we're not all stalled on our stories. At least as I'm seeing it in my head right now, that won't create any new imbalance since these characters have already had their extra skills at their current ranks.
Going forward, I would definitely support some method of making the XP cost hurt less when someone has legitimately learned within a guild. I recognize that guilds need perks to stay relevant, but I'd prefer to support character growth and player creativity over the more regulated guild structure.
A command to show how much XP a guildskill costs if you're not in the guild would be a nice way to help people plan ahead.
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