Well, this is an old thing and pretty common in all RP games and always quite... controversial. Yes yes, i am talking about accents because I wanna know what do you think about them, especially those that cripple every word, every sentence making it barely understandable (especially to us, non native English speakers) just to add flavor.
Personally, I always raise a vote to ban accents and whenever someone engages in RP with me, using an accent I ask them to drop it and if they don't want to - i leave the scene. I have no issue if you add "aye" some where, or change a word every now and then, but when I see someone malforming whole sentences so they will seem brutish or french... This makes my head explode.
I always advocate that if you want to have an accent, just indicate it in the emote, instead of making your words just painful to read (effect will be the same, but without a head ache for us, non-native English speakers).
What do you guys think of the matter? Especially with ever so growing population of accents in TI in last week or so.
Accents
I can see your point that it's uncomfortable for you, especially as a non-native speaker, to deal with accents. With that in mind, I would like to encourage players who are pondering RPing an accent to consider that there are people out there who do not enjoy them to the extreme that they may leave scenes with you.
That said, I don't think it's other people's responsibility to cater to your RP needs and desires above their own. If you don't like accents, you're free to do just as you chose to do - for example, leaving the scene.
In my view, RP is a creative forum for people to express themselves however they wish within the bounds of theme and decency.
That said, I don't think it's other people's responsibility to cater to your RP needs and desires above their own. If you don't like accents, you're free to do just as you chose to do - for example, leaving the scene.
In my view, RP is a creative forum for people to express themselves however they wish within the bounds of theme and decency.
You are right and I am the one changing behavior, not demanding it for others.Kinaed wrote:I can see your point that it's uncomfortable for you, especially as a non-native speaker, to deal with accents. With that in mind, I would like to encourage players who are pondering RPing an accent to consider that there are people out there who do not enjoy them to the extreme that they may leave scenes with you.
That said, I don't think it's other people's responsibility to cater to your RP needs and desires above their own. If you don't like accents, you're free to do just as you chose to do - for example, leaving the scene.
In my view, RP is a creative forum for people to express themselves however they wish within the bounds of theme and decency.
I simply wonder about opinions of people in this particular community.
Blake Evernight tells you, "You, Sir, won my heart today. Are you single?"
In general, I dislike encountering accents in play, but it doesn't bother me extremely. I also personally dislike things like short emotes, self-aggrandizing emotes, repetitive or dull emotes, harassing emotes, poor grammar, and a refusal to at least semi-hold to a turn structure. They're RP preferences, but I still play with people, fairly happily, outside of that comfort zone.
What does bother me is that the wording of the original post, in coincidental timing with an OOC conflict that I heard about, might be an attack on a particular player. There's really only one I can think of who uses accents, and I am uncomfortable that someone might post a forum post to attempt to peer pressure that person into changing their character.
Perhaps I'm wrong about how I read your original post, but I figure it's probably best to lay the cards on the table so you can understand where I'm coming from.
What does bother me is that the wording of the original post, in coincidental timing with an OOC conflict that I heard about, might be an attack on a particular player. There's really only one I can think of who uses accents, and I am uncomfortable that someone might post a forum post to attempt to peer pressure that person into changing their character.
Perhaps I'm wrong about how I read your original post, but I figure it's probably best to lay the cards on the table so you can understand where I'm coming from.
I am not a passive aggressive type, but a straight shooter so i don't round people to put "peer pressure" one someone. If i have issue with someone - he will know about it right away in usually harsh and brutal words (sometimes too hard and brutal i guess, but i simply say what i think). Heck, I've encountered couple people in this game before "the incident" and they've all heard that I won't really play along with the accent as it is very tiring to me (some were happy to comply, others i just left the scene).
So no, that's not it and I didn't even consider this thing as a conflict really. Simply a person preferring not to take part in scene and saying it outright instead of just "ic igoring" or making cheap "ic excuse". This one was simply the "unlucky" one to hit the point where i started to wonder "maybe i am wrong about accents?" so I've asked the public hoping to hear some good points for it.
So no, that's not it and I didn't even consider this thing as a conflict really. Simply a person preferring not to take part in scene and saying it outright instead of just "ic igoring" or making cheap "ic excuse". This one was simply the "unlucky" one to hit the point where i started to wonder "maybe i am wrong about accents?" so I've asked the public hoping to hear some good points for it.
Blake Evernight tells you, "You, Sir, won my heart today. Are you single?"
For myself, there are some accents (IE Marisa's) that I find endearing, but yah, when things get pushed to an extreme it can certainly get annoying fast. The point on not being a native English speaker is a really good one IMHO (and would also apply to people using screen readers). I would hope that if anyone was told "Hey look, your accent makes it a bit hard for me to read and keep up with the poses, could you just reference it at the start of the pose and not type it out?" that people here would be accommodating and oblige. A policy along those lines wouldn't be bad either IMHO.
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Takta
I personally wouldn't want to make it policy, but politely asking seems perfectly legitimate to me. Politely being the operative word!
I'll admit that this sometimes does grate on my nerves a little, but only in very specific circumstances.
My main issue with this is when people readily assume the Vavardi is an IG substitute for French, Vandagan for German, Farin for Middle Eastern or African, and Lithmorran for British. Though there are obviously some similarities between the invented cultures of TI and their potential real-life "equivalents" or "forerunners", I think that it's always important to stress that these are fictional, partially-derivative societies, and should not be considered direct, all-encompassing representations of the real-life inspirations used to formulate them. As someone who specialises in the investigation of cultures very different from our own modern ones, I can tell you that to do so is fundamentally fraught with danger.
In short, misrepresenting a culture because of your preconceptions about it is never a good thing, whether in the real world or in the context of a game.
This is usually not a problem for accents, unless (for example), a Vandagan speaker is littering their emotes with "mein", "ja", etc. This gets on my nerves big time, because it's misrepresenting and manipulating Vandagan culture into an exclusive, strictly defined framework. This leaves very little room for other Vandagan characters to explore the aspects of their chosen culture that are unique to TI, which may not necessarily fit in with this model.
We do, of course, attempt to find points of connect and disconnect in everything we do IG; it is in this way that we are able to understand the world and culture of TI. Saying (for example), "culture X is vaguely derived from x real-life culture" is a helpful tool that we can use, among others, in entering a particular mindset. We should never take this as the be-all-and-end-all of character execution. Now, it would be unreasonable for me to say, "you must absolutely not tailor your execution of a character, no matter what culture, based on the real-life society you think it comes from". I think, however, that we do need to be better informed about the disconnections between TI cultures and our own; if you are adding an accent into your emotes that is appropriate to TI's setting, then I'd say to go for it. It's not for me to tell you how to structure your emotes or RP. Personally, though, it does s**t me off when people misrepresent TI cultures by shoving them into a "German" or "French" framework and leave it at that.
Incidentally, I feel the same way about people who say that Davism is "basically" Catholicism. *gripe*
Marisa is an excellent example of a character who is beautifully executed based on an excellent understanding of Vavardi culture; I've never found her use of accents prohibitive to my understanding of what she's saying, and, in fact, it wouldn't feel like Marisa if she were told that she couldn't write in accents. Summary: Marisa is an excellent example of someone who gets it right.
If you're having trouble understanding people, however, a simple tell or osay (phrased in a polite manner) should help to clear up the issue. If someone's going to be a d**k to you in return, though, then take it to staff; I think we should all be considerate of the fact that not everyone on the MUD is a native English speaker. I don't, however, think we need to "ban" the use of accents on a MUD-wide level.
/rant over.
My main issue with this is when people readily assume the Vavardi is an IG substitute for French, Vandagan for German, Farin for Middle Eastern or African, and Lithmorran for British. Though there are obviously some similarities between the invented cultures of TI and their potential real-life "equivalents" or "forerunners", I think that it's always important to stress that these are fictional, partially-derivative societies, and should not be considered direct, all-encompassing representations of the real-life inspirations used to formulate them. As someone who specialises in the investigation of cultures very different from our own modern ones, I can tell you that to do so is fundamentally fraught with danger.
In short, misrepresenting a culture because of your preconceptions about it is never a good thing, whether in the real world or in the context of a game.
This is usually not a problem for accents, unless (for example), a Vandagan speaker is littering their emotes with "mein", "ja", etc. This gets on my nerves big time, because it's misrepresenting and manipulating Vandagan culture into an exclusive, strictly defined framework. This leaves very little room for other Vandagan characters to explore the aspects of their chosen culture that are unique to TI, which may not necessarily fit in with this model.
We do, of course, attempt to find points of connect and disconnect in everything we do IG; it is in this way that we are able to understand the world and culture of TI. Saying (for example), "culture X is vaguely derived from x real-life culture" is a helpful tool that we can use, among others, in entering a particular mindset. We should never take this as the be-all-and-end-all of character execution. Now, it would be unreasonable for me to say, "you must absolutely not tailor your execution of a character, no matter what culture, based on the real-life society you think it comes from". I think, however, that we do need to be better informed about the disconnections between TI cultures and our own; if you are adding an accent into your emotes that is appropriate to TI's setting, then I'd say to go for it. It's not for me to tell you how to structure your emotes or RP. Personally, though, it does s**t me off when people misrepresent TI cultures by shoving them into a "German" or "French" framework and leave it at that.
Incidentally, I feel the same way about people who say that Davism is "basically" Catholicism. *gripe*
Marisa is an excellent example of a character who is beautifully executed based on an excellent understanding of Vavardi culture; I've never found her use of accents prohibitive to my understanding of what she's saying, and, in fact, it wouldn't feel like Marisa if she were told that she couldn't write in accents. Summary: Marisa is an excellent example of someone who gets it right.
If you're having trouble understanding people, however, a simple tell or osay (phrased in a polite manner) should help to clear up the issue. If someone's going to be a d**k to you in return, though, then take it to staff; I think we should all be considerate of the fact that not everyone on the MUD is a native English speaker. I don't, however, think we need to "ban" the use of accents on a MUD-wide level.
/rant over.
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Applesauce
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:13 pm
And yet she has used a few Italian words in-game, as if Vavardi translated into Lithmorran somehow becomes Italian. Without intending to offend either you or her, I think Marisa's character is a clear example of the things you say are NOT good roleplay.Cellan wrote:In short, misrepresenting a culture because of your preconceptions about it is never a good thing, whether in the real world or in the context of a game.
This is usually not a problem for accents, unless (for example), a Vandagan speaker is littering their emotes with "mein", "ja", etc. This gets on my nerves big time, because it's misrepresenting and manipulating Vandagan culture into an exclusive, strictly defined framework.
...
Marisa is an excellent example of a character who is beautifully executed based on an excellent understanding of Vavardi culture; I've never found her use of accents prohibitive to my understanding of what she's saying, and, in fact, it wouldn't feel like Marisa if she were told that she couldn't write in accents. Summary: Marisa is an excellent example of someone who gets it right.
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