Log of OOC Meeting 12/07/2013

[Dice]

A Comfortable Room
[Pleasant]
A plethora of gaily coloured silk pillows with fringes and tassels
completely conceal the floor. A large pillow in the corner stands out, a
brooding black mass of velvet and fringeless. Screens of nature scenes
painted with the spare strokes of a brush that hint at and outline the
subjects, leaving much to the imagination. Behind the screens, silk
curtains and sheets painted with bright patterns hide the walls, pulled
back only around the windows that pierce the southern and western walls to
look out over a lush garden filled with an untamed riot of plants and
trees.

[ Exits: -down- ]
Several herb plants grow low to the ground. (northeastern corner)
( 4)The Places Spec rests here. (southeastern corner)
[AFK] Tristana Smithe is here, riding a tall Vavardi draft horse with a pitch black coat and mane. [App: 1]
[IAW] Beronica Destral is sitting in her rocking chair. [App: 3]
Edward Darson is lounging at the bar, drinking as he does so. [App: 3]
Kinaed is here. [App: 5]
Temi is here. [App: 5]

Kinaed declaims, "Okay, it's time!"

Temi grins.

Noah states, "Perfect timing for me, too."

Temi says, "Little bit early for most folks, it seems."

Noah claims, "Yeah, for sure."

Kinaed claims, "It's too late for me with the current timezones, sadly."

Kinaed says, "Er, the normal time."

Temi nods in agreement.

Kinaed claims, "Cuts my day exactly in half, which is impossiblef or household management."

Noah queries, "What time is it there right now? o_O"

Kinaed states, "8am."

Noah states, "Huh, wow."

Kinaed wonders, "Can I get a scribe volunteer?"

Noah states, "Can do"

Kinaed states, "Thanks, Noah."

Kinaed states, "Okay, today's agenda:

- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics"

Kinaed muses, "Anyone want to add anything to make sure we talk about it?"

Kinaed says, "Okay, I'll go with no after the long silence. :) I'll kick off Staff Updates."

Temi grins.

Edward Darson nods.

[Action: Beronica Destral is sitting in the middle of herb]

Kinaed claims, "I sent Az a few updates, like the Bounty List format, for example. I did a lot of admin stuff, like reviewing and approving player recommendations. I

intend to review places code to address some concerns raised by players, namely:

- No chance for a player to notice they've been caught eavesdropping
- Trying to decide if we ought to make the handshake for joining a place a little more subtle as Casimir raised.
- and two more I can't remember off the top of my head."

Safir has been transferred in by Kinaed. [OOC]

Kinaed says, "They're written down though."

Kinaed gives a round-petaled yellow wildflower to Safir.

Kinaed declaims, "That's all for me. Temi, you're up!"

Temi exclaims, "Okay!"

Temi claims, "So, Az has been working hard on herbalism stuff. A lot of the functional stuff that players will see is going to still be coming, but what he has got in

is a lot of the background structures for me to fill in."

Edward Darson queries, "Is this going hand-in-hand with the poison system, or is that yet to come?"

Temi claims, "That's all part of it."

Edward Darson nods.

Temi states, "Plants is more done at the moment than affects - which includes poisons and stuff."

Noah claims, "Sweeeet. :D"

Kinaed points at the herb plants growing here.

Kinaed states, "There's some staff test ones that we're watching."

Temi says, "But I've now got the full list of plants knowing what type of plant they are, what seeds they are, what they produce, how often they need tended and how

often they can be harvested... what temperatures they prefer - though I still want to adjust those ones some."

Tristana Smithe stops chewing on the plants, "mmmm

Beronica Destral waves from her place in the plants.

Temi claims, "But yep! These plants are growing and keeping track of how long they've been doing so... that doesn't have any results yet... but they are! And now

they are common herb plants."

Temi nods.

Noah says, "Whew, that must have been hours of work."

Temi says, "I mostly had the info prepared, just entering it into the new olc Az created."

Temi states, "I was also working on getting the floral herbalism recipes finished up to the same state that the concoction recipes are, especially since those ones

will be functional earlier."

Temi claims, "Bit more to do on that still. I didn't get through the all before the meeting."

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes has been transferred in by Kinaed. [OOC]

Noah claims to Temi, "Sheesh, what a slacker. ;)"

Kinaed gives a round-petaled yellow wildflower to a female with short brown hair and dark green eyes.

Temi says, "But I think our goal is to have something, whether it's the whole working system or not, ready to give you guys as a Christmas present."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes states, "Thank you"

Beronica Destral waves to a female with short brown hair and dark green eyes.

Temi says, "And.. that's about what I've had time to do. Still getting settled in at the new job."

Kinaed gives a round-petaled yellow wildflower to Tristana Smithe.

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Noah wonders, "Can I get a flower?"

Beronica Destral says, "They stink."

Kinaed states, "That wraps up Staff Updates. Az has obviously been focusing on Temi's herbalism stuff pretty exclusively. I log into a lot of back end changes on the

changes board (staff board where we have what's going down code-wise)."

Noah claims to Beronica Destral, "YOU stink. <3"

Kinaed gives you a round-petaled yellow wildflower.

Kinaed says, "Sorry if I missed anyone with flowers."

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes smiles at Beronica Destral.

Beronica Destral sniffs a round-petaled yellow wildflower, nose wrinkling and eyes watering.

Kinaed asks, "Okay, next bit - Player Heartbeat! How's the roleplay lately, folks? Need or want any support from staff?"

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes queries, "Can I suggest we nerf Bisons?"

Kinaed queries, "Nerf Bisons?"

Temi states, "Bisons are rather large animals."

Beronica Destral mutters heavily under her breath.

Kinaed headscratches.

Edward Darson states, "I got a bounty out on me! It made me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside."

Noah states, "Well, there are a lot of other animals out there that are not nearly so tough."

Kinaed smiles at Edward Darson.

Beronica Destral says, "I got my wedding tomorrow."

Kinaed states to Edward Darson, "Looks like someone cares."

Kinaed says to Beronica Destral, "Ooh, exciting."

Noah questions to Beronica Destral, "Right, what time is that again?"

Kinaed muses to Beronica Destral, "Did you need things like food, etc?"

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes claims, "But.. they lure you in, and kill you"

Beronica Destral says, "6pm server time."

Tristana Smithe says, "Roleplay's been super awesome lately. Just need to tie up a few more orderites, and we'll have finished preparations for the Smut party."

Noah says, "6pm. Right, I'll make sure to be around, I'd kinda forgotten."

Noah grins.

Kinaed exclaims to Beronica Destral, "Aww, happening during my work day. Enjoy though!"

Safir says, "They aren't aggro. Don't attack."

Beronica Destral says to a female with short brown hair and dark green eyes, "You're the one who keeps going after them while injured."

Kinaed asks, "Make a log and put it on the forums? :)"

Kinaed flutters her unicorn lashes at Beronica Destral.

Beronica Destral nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed claims to Beronica Destral, "Thanks, I'll look forward to reading it."

Beronica Destral trails off, "I think I have the log from my other wedding somewhere on my laptop..."

Noah questions to Beronica Destral, "Lemme know if you need me to have anything but the actual ceremony bit ready?"

Kinaed nods at Beronica Destral.

Kinaed says, "I'd love to see those too. Logs are great."

Beronica Destral nods at Kinaed.

Kinaed asks, "What's a Smut Party?"

Kinaed states, "Actually, I probably shouldn't have asked that."

Kinaed 's eyeballs go big.

Noah grins.

Beronica Destral says, "Anything that has to do with Casimir."

Temi grins at Kinaed.

Tristana Smithe claims, "If you've seen Family Guy, it may be suspiciously like Stewie's Sexy Party"

Kinaed says, "I haven't, alas."

Kinaed questions, "Okay, well, there's Player Heartbeat, I think. Player Topics? "

Kinaed queries, "What are you guys interested in discussing?"

Noah wonders, "I had a player comment to me the other day about magic helpfiles sucking. I was wondering if anybody'd had a chance to read the re-dos I submitted to

replace them?"

Tristana Smithe states, "The only RPXP thing I have to mention is that it sort of felt like I was gaining more when my RP level dropped below 'excellent'. I might be

wrong there, i'm not really sure. It hasn't been a huge deal."

Noah says, "(Not the spell helpfiles, the basic help magic <whatever>.)"

Kinaed claims, "I think they're sitting on my board. I caught a few things to tweak, but I'll add that to my todo."

Beronica Destral says, "I hate to whip a lame horse, but yesterday I noticed that my RPXP went from excellent to good while I was RPing with a new character when a

character I was familiar with entered the room."

Noah wonders, "Am I good to keep working on others?"

Kinaed states, "Oh, I think the player results for the poll re: the next priority are final. *checks*"

Kinaed claims to Beronica Destral, "That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that to happen."

Temi says, "I think the more the merrier on those ones."

Temi grins at Noah.

Temi nods at Kinaed.

Temi claims, "Might be a bug."

Noah claims to Temi, "Gotcha. Just now I don't have quite the same carte blanche I used to, so I figured I'd ask. ;)"

Kinaed says to Beronica Destral, "Mind bugging that? It's supposed to be an additive system, so if you're RPing with someone unknown... and there's no negatives for

familiarity, just no bonuses, so someone entering that you're very familiar with shouldn't LOWER it."

Noah queries to Beronica Destral, "Did you have autowarnings on?"

Kinaed questions, "When you bug it, copy/paste that say to the bug?"

Kinaed says to Noah, "Happy to take help file submissions on the Request Board from any player."

Beronica Destral claims, "Yes, I have autowarnings on. And it did tick over while the person I was familiar with came in and it did not show the unfamiliarity bonus.

Though I do not normally keep logs either.""

Noah says, "Aha. So it could be the ticking over."

Noah states, "You might have lost benefits from thinks or whatnot in the previous span."

Kinaed questions, "Do you want us to investigate that, or...?"

Beronica Destral claims, "I mean tick as in the span passed, but the moment I emoted right after the other person showed up, it went down to good."

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes muses, "What should I do to get my RPXP over average?"

Beronica Destral claims, "Set an action, and 'think'."

Temi says, "I wonder if the unfamiliarity bonus requires everyone be unfamiliar. That doesn't seem right."

Noah claims, "Right, but when the span passes, you lose any benefits you might have accrued specific to that span that could have boosted you to excellent. Though

yeah, could just be bugged."

Kinaed says, "Read Help RPXP, and turn on Autowarnings until you get the hang of it (then turn Autowarnings back off if you find them too spammy)"

Noah claims to Temi, "Pretty sure I've gotten it when that wasn't true, but I could be wrong."

Delilah appears in swirl of fog, thunder sounding throughout the area lightning streaking through the clouds. [OOC]

Kinaed says to Temi, "I agree, doesn't seem right."

Temi nods.

Temi declaims, "Oh, we could have a Delilah update!"

Kinaed muses to Delilah, "Hey, gorgeous. How do you feel about giving a belated Staff Update?"

Beronica Destral says, "It should have been back upto Excellent once I had emoted and used think...but it stayed at good."

Delilah is in the truck on the interstate, may poof.

Kinaed nods at Delilah.

Kinaed is very experienced with crappy link connections due to travelling and cellphone connections.

Delilah says, "I uh... did what Delilahs do. Built and typo fixed."

Safir claims, "I had an RPXP question."

Noah grins at Delilah.

Kinaed muses to Safir, "Sure, what's up?"

Safir queries, "Tcant counts as emotes, right?"

Delilah smiles at Kinaed.

Proconsul Lei Varick has been transferred in by Kinaed. [OOC]

Kinaed states, "... I have no idea. "

Kinaed says, "But they should."

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes wonders, "Why does rping with an orderite give more xp?"

Safir muses, "I think in one of these previous sessions, there was some kind of mention that if you emote too much, you'll get docked, is that the case?"

Kinaed claims, "I'll add that to Az's bug bord to confirm it."

Tristana Smithe snuggles and curls up with Proconsul Lei Varick, petting her, "you're level 59 barbarian now."

Kinaed says to a female with short brown hair and dark green eyes, "Because people avoid them, so we added a bonus to make it more desirable to RP with them."
Noah claims to a female with short brown hair and dark green eyes, "To encourage people to play Orderites."

Noah snerks.

Safir claims, "Because for thief RP, using tcant in public, pretty much doubles or triples the emotes. I'm wondering if using it is hurting or helping RPXP."

Kinaed states, "Freemen and Orderites also get more XP for playing those kind of chars - also to encourage them."

Kinaed claims to Safir, "Ahh. I was unaware."

Temi states, "If they are short they shouldn't be counted towards rpxp anyway, I think."

Kinaed wonders, "Can you take that offline with me so I can get a better sense for what is happening to decide what to do about it?"

Safir states, "I really don't know what's happening, just the question."

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes queries, "Could I be sent back?"

Kinaed states, "Okay, I'll touch base with the Thieves guild."

Kinaed nods at a female with short brown hair and dark green eyes.

A female with short brown hair and dark green eyes has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

Safir claims, "I've been doing longer ones in scenes, as have other people. Trying to pool the language so it's less playing telephone with words missing everywhere."

Noah queries, "I think Az had said that the 'too many' emotes was like more than 1 a minute?"

Kinaed nods at Noah.

Noah states, "So you'd have to be tcanting like crazy to get that many."

Kinaed claims, "Yeah, so you odn't want to hit a 1:1 ratio."

Kinaed claims, "Might be 2:1."

Kinaed claims, "But yeah, you have to be flicking stuff off pretty insanely quick to override the limits."

Safir says, "If it's just keeping it below 20 in 20 minutes if it's two people or 30 in 30 minutes if it's between three, not a big deal. "

Noah nods.

Safir claims, "I'd never heard what was considered spam emoting and what wasn't. But my numbers double/triple in scenes where I'm tcanting on that character."

Tristana Smithe queries, "What's tcanting?"

Kinaed states, "I've made a note to talk to Az and find out."

Safir claims, "Thieves cant. The finger sign language."

Kinaed states, "I have to admit (tcant is the thieves sign language, they can talk to each other silently without others detecting it)"

Tristana Smithe declaims, "Ah!"

Kinaed says, "When I had a theif char, I noticed tcant was treated a bit poorly like 'telephone' outside of RP. We would talk quickly without much notice to how Tcant

would be physically represented (sign language)"



Tristana Smithe says, "Do others see anything like "X flashes his fingers at Y in a weird way, and says, "West side, yo")"

Beronica Destral claims, "When I'm treating sometimes I can get up to 10 times in a span."

Noah says to Tristana Smithe, "Nope, it's TOTALLY hidden."

Kinaed says, "No, and that's part of my point about it being 'outside of RP'."

Safir claims, "I've normally seen people try and include their hands in emotes, and I try to pair it before or after an emote."

Noah claims, "It's weird, because it's not realistic that it can go on in these huge convos without being caught, but at the same time, if it could be caught it's as

good as wearing a neon sign saying I'M A THIEF."

Kinaed claims, "A good RPer will emote something about touching their chin or subtly moving their fingers, etc, but the full convos that take place... yeah, I could

see it going outside the boundaries of what we've established for emotes."

Safir says, "I.e. saying where their hands are or are visible, or are tapping against something or doing something with their hands."

Kinaed nods at Safir.

Safir claims, "I'd be concerned more about short ones, really, because when the tcants get short, it gets really spammy, and the other non-thief characters can be

neglected for lack of general room emotes."

Kinaed states, "I still think it flows more quickly than realistic. Tcant probably needs some work, but I suspect if we work it too much, esp without the thief players

to input, we'll probably just annoy people."

Temi nods.

Temi claims, "It could be better... but I don't think it's a priority.. or easy to be what we'd want it to be."

Noah says, "Ultimately I think you just gotta rely on people not to be jerks."

Kinaed nods at Noah.

Kinaed says, "At least for now. We have some far higher priorities to address, like Places code and MAIL POLCA."

Safir states, "I don't think the current crop is being jerks with it. At least, so far as I can tell. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't spam emoting though, because

it's a big jump from maybe 6 emotes in a time period to 12. "

Kinaed states, "We can check the RPxp affects though."

Kinaed nods at Safir.

Noah muses, "What were player priorities?"

Kinaed states, "Sec."

Kinaed questions, "viewtopic.php?f=8&t=713"

Kinaed states, "That is where it was at by vote close."

Noah laughs. Aw, I hate that nobody voted for bury.

Noah can't remember if I voted or not.

Kinaed states to Noah, "They don't know how cool it is, they haven't seen the spec."

Kinaed trails off, "Let's see..."

Noah trails off, "And how many RPAs it would save staff if PCs could dig up graves themselves..."

Beronica Destral says, "Places, Mail, and Domain games came out on top."

Noah states, "I wish Arynon were here so I could make a joke at him about how many graves he's dug up. *grin*"

Edward Darson queries, "Hell yeah, we gonna be able to forge signatures and shit?"

Kinaed has written a new note, Fwd: Bury Rewrite (Original author: Kinaed), on the Bugs board.

board bug
Current board changed to Bugs. You can both read and write here.
There is 1 unread note.

[ 4:39PM]
note

[ #106 ] Bugs Board
A note has been posted by: Kinaed
In subject of: Fwd: Bury Rewrite (Original author: Kinaed)
Date : Sat Dec 7 16:39:49 2013
Expires : Mon Apr 18 22:28:10 2016
To : Azarial staff All
_________________________________________________________________________
Syntax: bury <object>
bury <object> hidden <drop message>
bury grave <object> <name>
dig <target>

Bury grave <object> enters the player into an editor to prepare a
headstone for a permanent grave object that will remain in the room.
The object produced in the room should be the same as currently.

Bury <object> allows a player to bury almost any object in game.

When a burial is done, the item will be placed inside a special container
object (a mound of freshly turned earth) that will show some
information when examined. (see EXAMINATION INFORMATION) instead of what
is inside the object. Staff who examine the mound will see the examination
information, then the object that is inside.

After 7 OOC days, the container will decay, destroying itself and whatever
is inside the object. A message to the room will say:

Time washes away a mound of freshly turned earth.

Characters can dig <target> to attempt to dig up the mound. When they
do so, depending on the size of the mound, they will get a threaded
message:

Kinaed digs up a mound of freshly turned earth.

Bury <obj> hidden <drop message> will use the hide skill of the
character burying the object to determine if people, upon a wisdom
check the same as that used by hemote see the mound when typing
'look' in a room. The mound will have the drop description the
player hiding it left, such as 'A mound of freshly turned earth hides
under scattered leaves.'

NOTES:
- When digging something up, players get dirty.
- When burying something, players get dirty.
- Both burying and digging up objects requires a shovel.
- Both burying and digging up an object will thread the command
as above 1x per 10 points of size of the object.
- If an object's size is over 80, do not allow the player to
bury it with a message:
<object short> is too large to bury!

EXAMINATION INFORMATION

Examination information uses the player's appraise skill to
provide static information about the mound as below, based
on rank of Appraise skill:

Inept-Unskilled
Kinaed examines a <size> mound of freshly turned earth.

Capable-Proficient
Kinaed examines a <size>, <time> mound of freshly turned earth.

Adept-Grandmaster
Kinaed examines a <size>, <time> mound of freshly turned earth. It was dug
on Lunisda, Novembris 13, 358 (10 OOC hrs ago).

SIZE (if the object buried's size is...)
1-5 quite small
6-15 small
16-30 sizable
31-49 large
50+ huge

TIME (if the burial timestamp was...)
< 24 OOC hrs freshly dug
< 72 OOC hrs recently dug
> 72 OOC hrs dug some time ago

Burying objects should add a staff-only @imm forensic information onto
the mound object, including:

- vnum, short desc, and long descs of the object inside.
- name of the player who buried the object
- whether or not the player was cloaked, concealed or hooded
- the description of the cloak if yes
- what the player was wearing if no
- the description of the player
- If the player used the hidden option, what their hide skill was
- Any witnesses to the burial (similar to crimelab posts)

Digging up objects will transfer the above @imm information with an
additional line to a new 'a freshly dug hole' with the object still
inside:
- <Name> dug this mound up on <timestamp>.

Freshly dug holes will expire 1 OOC day later once empty of all
objects.

Kinaed says, "Yeah, well - Domain Games is probably going to remain on the backburner a bit. A lot more work needs to be done in that space to manage the monstrosity."

Tristana Smithe says, "I'm amazed makeup didn't win by a landslide. I'm going to have to put the TI-Covergirl line on hold :P"

Noah snerks.

Kinaed claims, "But PLACES is next to ready to go (minus a review for player feedback which I intend to complete this week) and Mail POLCA is also pretty much ready."

Temi says, "Some cosmetics will come with herbalism."

Temi says, "But not disguises."

Tristana Smithe hugs Temi.

Kinaed claims, "So those are going to come after herbalism."

Noah claims to Tristana Smithe, "I love you man, but I ain't sure even makeup can help app 1."

Edward Darson laughs.

Tristana Smithe says, "I promise, I'll start shampooing my hair once a year."

Temi grins.

Kinaed shudders at the turn of conversation.

Noah says, "I wonder if folks were voting more for domain games, or more for influence points revision."

Kinaed queries, "Everyone had a chance to read the bury revision?"

Noah muses, "Minor detail, is the size on corpses over 80?"

Temi states, "Domain games is hard because it could still mean so many different things."

Kinaed says, "Not sure."

Kinaed nods at Temi.

Tristana Smithe states, "No, but i swear, i'd go on treasure hunts when I was bored if it was in. I'd find -something- lol"

Temi has created a city guard!

A city guard is slain by Temi!
You hear a city guard's scream of terror as death takes his life.

Kinaed states, "Personally, I don't want to build the game to be for nobles. But I do want world events."

Temi says, "Size 80."

Tristana Smithe trails off, "And that's how Temi keeps the Reeves in line... :P"

Temi gets the corpse of a Lithmorran man.
Temi eats the corpse of a Lithmorran man.

Kinaed passes Temi a napkin.

Noah states, "You may want an exemption on size for containers."

Noah states, "A size 80 container is TINY."

Temi dabs daintily at her mouth with the napkin.

Kinaed questions, "You wouldn't recommend changing the size of the corpse to equate to the size of the person/beast?"

Noah says, "That'd be nice but possibly a pain."

Noah states, "But I'm thinking, what if you want to bury a treasure chest."

Noah states, "A 50-pound container is size 200."

Temi claims, "That's problematic."

Kinaed states, "Shouldn't be too bad since there's only a limited number of commands or instances where corpses are produced."

Noah claims, "Container size in general is a giant pain in the butt."

Temi nods.

Noah states, "It'd be so much easier if that was out of the game and a container's size could actually reflect its own size."

Kinaed states, "I think it's in place for a reason, though I forget why."

Kinaed claims, "Solved some other problem."

Beronica Destral says OOCly, "Can I get trans out?"

Beronica Destral has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

Noah states, "To keep people from cramming containers full of items with negligible weight, I gather, but it seems a cure's worse than the disease to me."

Noah claims, "Anyway, that's a minor arcane point you can sort out somehow."

Proconsul Lei Varick says OOCly, "I better get one too. Hugs all around. <333"

Kinaed pontificates, "Thanks for coming everyone!"

Proconsul Lei Varick has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

Kinaed queries, "Did we have more to talk about?"

Kinaed states, "Seems we're slowing down a bit - 10 min to go."

Edward Darson says, "I'm good."

Kinaed smiles at Edward Darson.

Kinaed wonders, "Anyone protest if we wrap up early?"

Temi claims, "I'm good. Can go back to bothering the herbs."

Temi grins.

Kinaed has a heap of stuff to jump on today.

Noah claims, "I got nothing much."

Edward Darson claims, "Gotta go brood about bounties and the like on my head."

Kinaed says, "I've made notes to review tcant and RPxp and review places."

Kinaed says, "Anything else I missed? I can check the scribe that Noah's putting up though, if push comes to shove."

Kinaed smiles at Edward Darson.

Kinaed states, "Okay, let's wrap it up early. Thanks again for attending everyone."

Tristana Smithe says, "Mmmm, early nap time then. Think an afternoon nap'll be perfect"

Safir has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]

[Applesauce]

One thing I noticed while wandering the New Herbalism recipes, almost everything above level 40 or so is either poisonous, a prank, or at least socially unacceptable. It seems if you're a master or grandmaster herbalist, the only reason (other than pride) you would want to get it that high is to make the serious Bad Stuff.

Would it be possible to either make new/stronger "good guy" recipes toward the top of the scale, OR rearrange what rank you need to make which recipe? Even if it's just bringing one or two floleaf or coamjar recipes up to GM status.

[Temi]

I'll look at maybe another nice high level thing at some point, but herbalism will also play a part in caring for plants and in helping to treat someone who is trying to survive a lethal poison, so there's other reasons for it than just concoct. Are you considering 40 to be the break-off point for high level though? Because there's definitely socially acceptable stuff above that. Fancy perfumes, fancy gardening, stuff to help addicts so they can recover from their addictions, painkillers, tinctures for treatment, strength and dexterity boosters.

[Applesauce]

Are you considering 40 to be the break-off point for high level though? Because there's definitely socially acceptable stuff above that.

Well, "40 or so" - looking at the list now it's more like 45 or 47, which at least makes it to Adept. Anyway, not saying there's NOTHING good above there, just that the vast majority are naughty things.

Didn't know about the other uses for the skill other than what you can physically make, so that itself provides reason to GM it. Thanks for the reply!