Thoughts on the new crafting system

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Onyxsoulle
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:46 pm

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:54 pm

This post is likely to agitate a few, but this is just my take on the crafting systems. I know alot of work goes into the systems, and that's been a big reason why I haven't said anything till now, but it's honestly bugged me for a while.

Now I know that the new system is set up to try and promote more rp, unfortunately I think it actually goes the other way and limiting rp.

My biggest experience is Blacksmithing, I'm going to be using Blacksmithing recipe 26(Smithing hammer) for my example.



Name : (26) Smithing Hammer
Known recipe
Notes:
Skill: Blacksmithing
Ranks required: 7
Steps taken : 5
Energy spent : 3 (15 total)
Consumed:
1x a sturdy wooden haft.
1x a pile of charcoal.
2x an iron bar.
Produced:
1x a smithing hammer.
Other required components:
1x a modest-sized forge and anvil.


So ingredients needed are a sturdy wooden haft, a pile of charcoal, and 2 iron bars. So the way it works for rp is i'm supposed to go and find a woodworker, rp with them and wind up getting the haft and some charcoal(both are woodworker recipes). But as it usually turns out, I have to buy or make each of these, so for charcoal I need wood, so I need to do some woodcutting, then turn it into charcoal, then more wood for the haft. So we can safely assume 15 minutes alone for the charcoal and haft. Then I have to head to gailiech or a similar shop for the iron. Now, I know each of these items can be purchased in individual shops, but I'm taking the perspective on a player just starting to learn the game and/or blacksmithing, so likely buying stuff is going to be out of their budget. Now we run the recipe once we find a forge, my experience has been that the first time you try a recipe, it's going to fail. If it fails, you have to do all of the stuff all over again. So now we're up to 30 minutes, plus 5 minutes or so for running the failed recipe.

This is a first tier or starter recipe, some of the upper ranked recipes are even more convoluted. For example; to make a dagger, I first need to make the blank, then I need to make the recipe that uses the blank. So two recipes to make the one item.

Personally, and hopefully Temi and those that worked on these don't get too angry, I think this is just too much and it takes away from rp. Some of the recipes sometimes seem to be in there just to take time, such as the final recipes for weapons. The number of recipes could be cut down severely by just omitting the 'stage 1' recipe.

Here's an example:

Name : (433) Steel Dagger Blank
Known recipe
Skill: Blacksmithing
Ranks required: 45
Steps taken : 7
Energy spent : 5 (35 total)
Consumed:
2x a pile of charcoal.
1x a steel ingot.
Produced:
1x a tempered steel dagger blank.
Other required components:
1x a pair of long-handled iron tongs.
1x a modest-sized forge and anvil.
1x a smithing hammer.


Name : (434) Steel Dagger
Known recipe
Skill: Blacksmithing
Ranks required: 45
Steps taken : 5
Energy spent : 5 (25 total)
Consumed:
1x a polished wooden handle.
1x a tempered steel dagger blank.
Produced:
1x a steel dagger with a polished handle.
Other required components:
1x a grindstone.

If you look, recipe 434 only calls for the end product from 433 and a wooden handle. If there was just 1 recipe that called for all the ingredients of recipe 433 and the handle from 434 it would go a bit quicker.

Like I said, I know this post isn't going to make people happy. I just feel that with the recent strive for 'make it more realistic' it's pulling away from RP. Realism is all well and good, but in the end we are here to RP.

Please don't shoot me! :D

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Leech
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:24 pm
Location: Behind you.

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:51 pm

I'm not the most knowledgeable on the crafting systems, but from the things you listed, I get the sneaking suspicion that the problems could be solved by... RPing more? I know we have woodworkers out there, somewhere - you shouldn't need to learn every craft to be a blacksmith - and a lot of the times people will sponsor you (especially when you're a blacksmith!) so that you can go on to buy starter tools, equipment, supplies, etc.

That's what I got from the above. As for time it takes, in a working economy it sounds reasonable, else wise you'll be able to churn out an astounding amount of goods. Unfortunately, we don't necessarily have the greatest economic model. Ned's got some changes for seasonal economy that might make it a bit more fleshed out, though!
Player of: Alexander ab Courtland

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Kinaed
Posts: 1984
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Discord Handle: ParaVox3#7579

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:06 pm

I've had mixed reviews of the crafting system, so I'll throw up a poll about crafting...

But I think when you join the merchants guild, you get a lot of support from your fellows with materials provided in a one-stop-shop in exchange for silver, favors, etc. Reading the original post, I just don't think that's what crafting is like for most high level crafters who focus on crafting. I rather suspect it looks more like:

- Stockpile a heap of stuff for use when necessary
- Use stockpile not only to create objects, but to trade for favors when another merchant or crafter wants the goods
- Occasionally make something

This seems to me to be more like the experience of a player who is very new to the system, who has bigger things to worry about rather than just travelling from point A to B to pick something up, but more 'where do I even find ore?' - but I don't think that expectation is unreasonable either, and the time and cost to crafting is exactly what Casimir suggested - there to prevent the spam creation of 5,000 wasteful objects that take up game memory, will never be used, etc.

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Zeita
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:38 pm

Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:04 pm

Kinaed wrote: - Stockpile a heap of stuff for use when necessary
- Use stockpile not only to create objects, but to trade for favors when another merchant or crafter wants the goods
- Occasionally make something

This seems to me to be more like the experience of a player who is very new to the system, who has bigger things to worry about rather than just travelling from point A to B to pick something up, but more 'where do I even find ore?' - but I don't think that expectation is unreasonable either, and the time and cost to crafting is exactly what Casimir suggested - there to prevent the spam creation of 5,000 wasteful objects that take up game memory, will never be used, etc.
The above sums of my dealings with the system pretty well, at least as it relates to chandlery and the perfume-related items in herbalism. I didn't take me long after delving into it that stockpiling became the name of the game- and apart from a few raw material scarcities, I have enough to last me for months to come.

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