The R & S Words

[Geras]

Okay, since rape and suicide policies were both on the player survey, and I wanted to give a more detailed answer on why I'm opposed to both occurring in game.

I feel that at best, suicide-as-RP is a cop out. We already have means to wrap up a character if desired, and the IMMs have been very reasonable in applying it IMHO. Why do we need suicide as an option? It's fraught with problems, not only from the standpoint that there it puts Imms and players in a horrible position of wondering if the person behind the player is in danger of doing something to themselves IRL, but also because its an easy out to avoid RP after you've been caught with a crime. I just really don't see the upside.

For rape, let me ask, what is the upside of allowing this sort of RP? I don't think I've ever said to myself about this game or any other, "Jee, I wish we could RP about rape here." Am I missing something here? I realize rape as drama and rape as a backstop are pretty common tropes, but they are very rarely well done in my experience at least.

This is going to be a pretty personal issue from some players unfortunately too, be it due to their own experiences, or those of a friend or a family member. If this sort of thing pushes someone's bezerk button, does it need to be in game?

And I have to say too that I would be worried about the types of players it may attract. People have their fantasies. I don't think this is the place we want them to act them out.

Besides, there are plenty of bad things you can do to a character as is.

[Krin]

While I am not an experienced player here, I am a veteran of a lot of other Role-Playing scenes and I have to agree that both have the capacity to become problematic and stint creativity in applying both a death and a crisis. I'd be very happy to never see either be the crux or end of a storyline on TI:L.

[Cellan]

I'm of the opinion, re: IC rape, that if a group of self-determining adults consent to play out a story arc, then they should be allowed to do whatever they want (within the bounds of the game's rules). We also have torture, infanticide, people skinning others alive, slavery, abortion, and horrible mutilations, but we don't outlaw them so long as all players involved are willing to take part (and not FTB). Why would we not also ban things like that?

[Leech]

During multiple occasions playing my characters, rape has seemed like what would, logically, happen next. Especially during Casimir/Gwenith RP, Casimir would have sexually tortured her. Historically, sex and violence have never been far apart. ICly, that would have added so many horrible, awful layers to the character - and especially to the people who chose to forgive him later, if any. What type of person would? It is the ultimate expression of evil, beyond even perhaps murder - and when you are playing a character with violent tendencies (such as Autumn, another of mine) who would kidnap men and torture them, why would she not then take out years of sexual frustration and rejection on them?

Psychologically, rape and suicide are two of the most disturbing things, in my opinion and they both can add a lot to the story. On the survey, I wanted them allowed. In the case of rape, I believe that any rape scenes should be mandatory fade-to-black.

However, I do understand that they deal with matters that might be very personal to some, so I won't exactly raise a fuss if they aren't allowed now. I don't believe they should be disallowed because of the type of players they would attract, though.

Yesterday we had a troll on the forums talking about somebody packing fudge up their asshole. What thing attracted them? I think it's quite out of our hands what players we attract, and the only thing to do is to boot them if they break rules or harass players.

[Onyxsoulle]

I come to TI to have fun, not figure out how Rape and Suicide can be introduced to the game.

[Leech]

Some people have different ideas of fun. Not that simulating rape is fun for me, but narrating a character so evil as to have that be an option (especially in medieval society where it was quite common) is an interesting challenge, and the fallout from any villainry is almost always fun for me to RP.

[Giftherz]

I was against rape being rp'd, due to RL experience as isn't that uncommon these days sadly. I have used it in back story before. This is the middle-ages and people are cruel. Shit happens so it is reasonable that it does as well!

Suicide on the other hand I voted for allowing in game, I have in every survey when we are asked about it. But only with atleast a 24 hr waiting period with a good Cnote as to why and Imm approval. With those restraints around it I don't see it as being a problem with people being arrested killing themselves.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Geras]

Well, I would hope the act itself would be FTB.

I think a big difference between rape and the acts you mention (with one notable exception) is that the players here and their loved ones are unlikely to actually experience these things in their own lives.

That's not necessarily true for rape and suicide.

(This is specifically to Cellan's post)

[Onyxsoulle]

Some people have different ideas of fun. Not that simulating rape is fun for me, but narrating a character so evil as to have that be an option (especially in medieval society where it was quite common) is an interesting challenge, and the fallout from any villainry is almost always fun for me to RP.

While I understanding wanting to make a character thought to be so evil that it would be an option, it isn't needed. For example, Leech's characters.

Between Cas and .... Naer(how many names did he actually have?) you have proven that you can be evil and not have rape in your repertoire. Cas (at least to Arynon) was the most vile and despicable being to ever walk the earth, he wanted to destroy Cas. As a player, it seemed proper that he should be killed/pyred and generally rent asunder. Naer(my experience here is little, Samuel only rp'd with him a bit) was just as bad if not worse. You can't oocly or icly mention either name without a shudder happening or an 'omg! he was evil!'. So this proves that there is no need for rape to be evil.

And really what does rape offer to the game as a whole? Nothing as far as I am concerned. I mean this is really what it comes down to, does allowing rape improve TI? Some few might say yes, but if 85% of the people say no, then I don't think it's worth getting into.

As for suicide, at first I was thinking suicide might be a valid option in some special circumstances. But then I thought about Arynon. His sister was killed, half a dozen girlfriends killed, was reviled by some almost as much as Cas was, it made some sense to have him off himself. However, this is where the Church comes in, Orderites are there for exactly that purpose. So suicide would in fact cut out rp for the game at large, so not thinking suicide should be allowed either.

[Geras]

I'd just point out that Bennie was castrated with a dull knife so I don't think the bar is exactly set low on the violence and brutality in the game. Again, thats something players probably don't actually have to worry about happened to them and their loved ones...