OOC thoughts toggles

[Lily]

I like roleplay. Part of the fun of roleplaying for me is reading the stories that other players write for their characters--including their thoughts. Unfortunately for me, thoughts need to be thought using the 'think' command, and only staff--or certain special people--can see them.

Now, I talked about this ingame with people, and others seemed to say that this encourages people to emote expressions that would hint at thoughts. But in free-form roleplay, people can do this just as well anyways. Example: A freeform roleplay on say Skype, IRC, etc., might go like this:

Bob frowns deeply, furrowing his brows. He shifts uneasily, thinking, 'I really think there's trouble coming...'
Sam looks at Bob, wondering what he seems to be thinking about. 'You seem troubled, Bob.'

Both players can see and enjoy the text on an OOC level. However, since neither of them are roleplaying a telepath, they roleplay their characters knowing that their characters can't read eachother's thoughts, and so they make their characters act accordingly. In The Inquisition it'd look like this to both players and characters:

Bob frowns deeply, furrowing his brows. He shifts uneasily.
(invisible: 'I really think there's trouble coming...')
Sam looks at Bob.
(invisible: Sam wonders what Bob seems to be thinking about)
'You seem troubled, Bob.'

Nothing has changed, except now only the staff can enjoy the full roleplay going on (and certain characters). Now, I understand that this would be useful for certain players who have trouble separating OOC info from IC info in how they roleplay, and so if thoughts were ever shown, it should be optional to see them. Also, some players might not trust other players not to godmod or have OOC thoughts influence their IC actions. So, there should be two toggles:

toggle thoughts ooc / toggle thoughts ic (Allows you as a player to see OOC thoughts).
toggle thoughts public / toggle thoughts private (Allows you to choose whether other players--not all characters--can see your thoughts).

How would this look in the game? Well, if your character was Sam, and you had the in-character ability to read his thoughts, you'd see something like this (I'm guessing how it looks currently).

Bob thinks to himself, "I really think there's trouble coming..." [Think]

If you have typed 'toggle thoughts ooc' and you don't have the ability to hear thoughts, you'd see:

Bob thinks to himself, "I really think there's trouble coming..." [Unseen think]--or some other indicator to show it's not IC info.

Maybe this is a bad idea, but I just felt like I'd put the idea out there, since I know there might be some others who might like these options.

[Puciek]

We aleady have ICly thoughts and mind reading, and it is working to some extend. What is this supposed to bring on top of that? Because I am really failing at grasping that the good from this idea of mixing even more OOC in middle of RP.

[Dice]

Sorry, but definitely not a fan. I think it's impossible to fully compensate for OOC knowledge. In the example you use above, it's easy for Sam to know to say "You seem troubled" - even though the thought isn't IC info. Without that thought, Sam's response might have been very, very different, and that's a lot more IC.

[Applesauce]

For some, a frown, furrowed brow, and uneasy shift could make it plainly clear that Bob's expecting trouble. Sam could just as easily ask Bob what he's worried about whether or not he can hear Bob's thoughts. If you want it to be more clear, you shouldn't broadcast your thoughts, but rather put more descriptive terms in your roleplay. Maybe he's glancing in a specific direction from which he expects trouble to arrive. Maybe he scratches idly at a scar that Sam knows Bob got during a mugging some years back. Tell a story.

Having OOC access to IC info would cause a few problems:

1) Some mages would stop listening to thoughts spellwise. They would just "decide" which they overhear and avoid the unnecessary risk of casting spells. This is already against policy, but we don't need to make it easier for people to do.

2) Right now, even a nonmage could ACCIDENTALLY say something that SEEMS like they can hear thoughts. This is a valid IC conflict that puts IC pressure on people to carefully watch what they say and do, and it would be entirely negated by players OOCly seeing a thought and subconsciously tailoring their responses accordingly. False accusations are part and parcel of the theme, given that during the RL Inquisition it could be assumed 100% of the accusations were false.

3) It encourages lazy roleplay. Even with the toggle to avoid temptation and the other toggle to not allow people to see yours if you don't want them to, it would make it easy for some to just turn it on and put RP into their thoughts instead of their actual RP. Like I mentioned above, don't think something's wrong, show it.

If I hate Bob, I shouldn't "emote squints at Bob." and then "think I hate that sumbish and I'm gonna punch his face off." Instead, I should "emote squints furiously at Bob, jaw clenching tighter with each forced breath. By his hip, /self's hand settles into a solid fist." Either way, Bob knows he's in for a few rearranged features.


[Edit: vvv Yeah Dice, I am agreeing with you.]

[Dice]

Yeah, mostly what I'm saying is that the example provided shows how thoughts OOCly influence things even if we know to discount them: a pose that was honestly somewhat ambiguous has only one interpretation possible if you're able to hear the thoughts, and so without realizing it, you are in fact taking OOC info and using it ICly.

[Pixie]

Sorry, but definitely not a fan. I think it's impossible to fully compensate for OOC knowledge. In the example you use above, it's easy for Sam to know to say "You seem troubled" - even though the thought isn't IC info. Without that thought, Sam's response might have been very, very different, and that's a lot more IC.

Came to post exactly this.

This is a style difference, all in all. In some RP environments its expected to include thoughts. In this kind of RP environment, where OOC information is neither expected nor welcome, providing the ability to include IC information you can't OOCly know would be inviting metagaming (or twinking, as it's called on TI), and kinda participating in it yourself.

I would see this anti-twinking policy becoming especially troublesome if IC information you don't know was being offered to you all the time: "OOCly pressuring another player to either take or refrain from any IC action." No way to prove the motive behind the thought being OOCly provided, no way to prove the person didn't act on it.

[Applesauce]

No way to prove the motive behind the thought being OOCly provided, no way to prove the person didn't act on it.

Bob stands around, looking casual.
Bob thinks to himself, "Oh my, I hope Thiefly Jim doesn't peek me to see the witchy spell components I forgot to get out of my inventory!" [Think]

[Kinaed]

I don't see any issues with Lily's suggestion at all - it's a perfectly legitimate way to RP that builds a deep connection between players. It suits various game environments, particularly ones with highly mature players and a "low stakes" game, and I personally enjoy it.

For TI's part, it is set up to be played in the third person, has a strong PvP element, and the stakes are high - loss of a character's life is a distinct possibility as a result of misuse of OOC information. Thus, non-essential OOC information is intentionally hidden. This all contributes to our them theme that TI is a dark, paranoia-style medieval fantasy. It's hard to ingrain a sense of paranoia when the secrets are OOCly known and a player can decide how to deal with them rather than acting in ignorance, and the pressure to abuse OOC information is high for self protection. As a deliberate stylistic choice (I wonder how many players actually noted that they play in the third person instead of the first person?), I don't think this suggestion will fit here, despite the fact that I agree RP in the suggested style in this thread can be quite rewarding.