- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics
Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"
Tomas claims, "Yes"
Emma stops using a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint.
Telimus exclaims to Evrald, "It's not my fault you're not a real man!"
Kinaed claims to Tomas, "I've got you first."
Kinaed queries, "Anyone else?"
Elzenn says, "I've got something."
Kinaed states to Elzenn, "I've got you."
Starlyn sits down on the ground.
Elzenn grins at Kinaed.
Telimus goes to sleep.
Kinaed questions, "Anyone else have anything they want to raise today?"
Telimus wakes and stands up.
Telimus sits down and rests.
Evrald wonders, "Whose scribing today?"
Feamanuslaewyn claims, "Misune."
Kinaed states to Evrald, "Misune."
Evrald states, "Ah. Got it.
"Elena has lost link.
Elena has reconnected.
Misune sits at his desk, with quill and ink
Temi says, "That's right. We were supposed to discuss that too."
Feamanuslaewyn looks at a book in his hands.
Kinaed claims, "Okay, if we have no more topics (please feel free to send me a tell if you think of one), let's kick off Staaff Updates."
Kinaed says to Temi, "Oh, yeah, I'll add that last."
Temi nods at Kinaed.
Kinaed claims, "Last week, I am absolutely certain I did something useful, but I can't recall. I think I spoke with staff about the Roles Spec also... it's back in focus."
Kinaed claims, "I was actually around quite a lot last week. I know I dealt with at least one policy item."
Takta exclaims, "Lots of help for us behind the scenes in sorting priorities and dealing with small stuff!"
Kinaed states to Takta, "Thanks
"Kinaed states, "Sorry to be vague, my mind is a bit more like a sieve than a steal trap. Having said that, next week's game plan: Still jail automation and roles specs."
Kinaed declaims, "That's all for me!"
Kinaed claims to Azarial, "You're up."
Azarial claims, "Mmm. some bugs, some typos, some adjusted output, and more work on a couple of specs."
Azarial states, "Combat will be a bit more consistent now, I believe"
Kinaed nods at Azarial.
Takta claims, "Mob combat especially, keep your eyes peeled there."
Feamanuslaewyn questions, "Mobs can attack?"
Ofelia will hide harder behind her bodyguards.
Takta states, "Non-pet mobs can, yeah."
Feamanuslaewyn wonders, "Player owned mobs?"
Feamanuslaewyn says, "Ok"
Evrald trails off, "Aww... my dog still can't attack things, just tank hits occasionally"
Kinaed states, "Here's some useful notes: Arrest was created and restrain is now a kidnapping command that reports on the Reeves channel. Anyone can restrain, law enforcers kidnap. After 10 minutes, if someone attempts to restrain someone else, and the someone else doesn't actually choose to fight or submit, they'll be auto-arrested as passively resisting."
Takta says, "Yeah, pet mobs can't/won't attack."
Emma says, "Nice."
Temi states to Kinaed, "Arrest. Law enforces arrest."
Kinaed says, "There's now a map that loads on new players, courtesy of Evrald."
Takta grins.
Kinaed claps mightily for Evrald.
Takta says, "Speaking of-"
Takta has created a portable map of "Lithmore City"!
Takta has created a portable map of "Lithmore City"[20].
Takta drops the following:
( 20)a portable map of "Lithmore City"
Takta claims, "Take maps! Enjoy."
Emma exclaims, "Hooray!"
Evrald pontificates, "Hurrah!"
Emma claims, "Oh my god be right back, delivery people just got here with shiny new bed."
Takta claims, "I'll put them in a shop too for like 1 silver or something."
Misune makes a note of invetiable pickup spam
Kinaed claims, "We have changed tell off to be literally turning tells (and only tells) off. Tell log is now a toggle."
Evrald states, "For our blind players, check NWkey, NEkey, SWkey, SEkey for travel points.
"Telimus declaims, "Oh my gosh that is super important! This should be a thing papercrafters can make!"
Kinaed has transferred Sheldon. [OOC]
Sheldon has returned from AFK.
Takta states to Telimus, "I'll make a note of that for Xinoe."
Takta starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)
Elzenn gives a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint to Sheldon.
Feamanuslaewyn claims, "By Dav's balls. Incredible job."
Takta finishes its note.
Kinaed asks of Azarial, "May I move on to Temi now?"
Feamanuslaewyn trails off, "And I've just realized there's no Vandagan quarter..."
Elzenn says, "There.. is."
Eamon claims, "There is! It is... not on this city map."
Feamanuslaewyn claims, "Nvm"
Azarial nods.
Telimus states, "Yea there is."
Evrald states, "NeMap."
Kinaed declaims to Temi, "It's your turn now!"
Temi nods.
Evrald says, "It's in the east/northeast corner of the city guys."
Feamanuslaewyn claims, "I missed it. It's there."
Temi says, "Okay! Unfortunately, not a lot achieved this week."
Temi states, "The usual RPA and plot things. I made a general board post to help reminder on how to use osays - hopefully that is helpful to folks. I added in the new prestige ingredients that Az did up the code for."
Kinaed smiles.
Temi says, "I tried to help Takta do some of the change processing and testing, and my pager immediately went off for work."
Starlyn states, "Lol"
Temi states, "So... that didn't get done."
Temi claims, "And that's about it."
Temi nods at Kinaed.
Kinaed smiles.
Kinaed states to Takta, "You're up.
"Takta states, "I finally got some time this week! So."
Takta trails off, "I put Evrald's map into the game as a coded loadable object, started working on redoing the food tables for events (to be more consistent/thematic nd also not use vnums from the OLD grid), did several hours' work on a project for Elzenn you'll see soon, and..."
Takta claims, "Processed somewhere in the vicinity of 80 change notes so help Feb2016 is now almost entirely up to date! The backlog of stuff Az had coded but we had not yet helpfiled/tested is down to about 10 items."
Elena has lost link.
Elena has reconnected.
Elzenn steeples her fingers. Maybe evilly, maybe not.
Kinaed grins, "Yay! I love it when changes get tested and finalized."
Takta says, "With that beast finally somewhat tamed I intend to focus more on knocking off other long-term small projects I've let clutter-up my to-do list, like reviewing animal damage dice, thinking about game activity stats, etc."
Takta exclaims, "That's it for me!"
Kinaed pontificates to Takta, "Thanks!"
Kinaed claims to Elzenn, "You're up."
Elzenn claims, "Right! I've been catching up on requests and typos I neglected for sake of plotting, as well as continuing to bop along my little plot-y path with more White Flame stuff in the works, including an ST which will be announced tomorrow or Monday (and is scheduled for the 27th, as per a previous general board note), pursuant to some IC business being concluded."
Elzenn says, "As always, please don't hesitate to beep me about the plot; especially this week if you would like to be included and don't see an in anywhere."
Hunapo stops using a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint.
Tomas begins to count their money.
Telimus begins to count their money.
Elzenn declares, "A lot of new characters have been requesting backgrounds that have to do with the plot fallout, which tickles me quite a bit, and I am happy to help along with anyone else too!"
Elzenn exclaims, "That's it for me!"
Kinaed smiles at Elzenn.
Temi exclaims, "On the topic of plots - if we ask you questions, please make sure you check and respond to them!"
Kinaed pontificates to Elzenn, "Thank you!"
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Misune coughs
Takta says, "Oh, Xin also wanted to say that! She's been working on Requests and Typos and asks you please double-check to see if your notes have edits that need your reply."
Kinaed nods at Takta.
Kinaed wonders, "Okay, that wraps up Staff Updates. I hope everyone found it useful. Next, we have Player Heartbeat. How was the game for everyone this week?"
Jemven declaims, "The little scenes I had were fun!"
Tomas says, "Ehh, for various reasons"
Kinaed smiles at Jemven.
Ofelia waves a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint about, "A grand week for the THEATRE!"
Telimus claims, "Great! Lot's of stuff going on. Spent about 1,100 silver to practice tailoring though.
"Feamanuslaewyn says, "Awesome. Finally got to do a lecture. Thanks to everyone who showed up. Glad to be back in the game."
Margaux states, "Mix of really good and some not so good."
Kinaed asks of Tomas, "Anything staff can or should help with or know about, or is it all community stuff?"
Eamon says, "Things feel better and more pleasant to me after all the conversations we've had since last week. Fits and starts, but progress."
Elena exclaims, "Dying slowed me down a bit but otherwise fun!"
Misune claims, "Rp has been goood, though a tad busy/stressful with the charali thing"
Kinaed queries to Margaux, "Same question as put to Tomas - anything staff could or should do?"
Jemven exclaims to Elena, "Ghoooooost!"
Ofelia says, "I've been having a blast, I have to say. I got a big project completed and got to jump back into more casual forms of RP."
Elena claims, "Boooooo"
Jemven claims to Elena, "Boooo'ing Ghoooooooost"
Tomas trails off to Kinaed, "One thing is something I'm going to bring up and it's more just a general... second guessing everything I do which isn't making the playing fun"
Kinaed smiles.
Kinaed hugs Tomas.
Sheldon states, "Not too bad aone scene sort of came to a screeching hault but other than that"
Kinaed muses to Tomas, "Okay, I assume that's part of your topic - that reminds me... if you've registered a topic, please pre-write the introduction?"
Kinaed claims, "That's for everyone who registered a topic, not just Tomas."
Kinaed nods at Sheldon.
Kinaed wonders to Sheldon, "Anything staff should be doing around that?"
Emma is back, reads.
Sheldon says, "I am not certain just 2 players butting heads then one said he wasnt comfortable rping with the other and said he was just leaving the scene which lost the other 2 not involved just hanging"
Kinaed nods at Sheldon.
Margaux claims to Kinaed, "I doubt it, but thanks for asking.
"Sheldon gives a helpless shrug
Kinaed comforts Sheldon.
Sheldon states, "I just am trying to stay out of it though since frankly if i take sides it will have one or another person pissed at me"
Kinaed comforts Sheldon.
Telimus eats Sheldon... >>
Kinaed states, "Yeah, that sort of thing can feel awkward."
Starlyn declaims, "I finally got outa the hospital!"
Starlyn laughs.
Kinaed claims to Sheldon, "Sadly, it is the type of thing that I cannot help."
Kinaed states to Starlyn, "Excellent.
"Kinaed queries, "May I check - is there anything shitting people about TI that the staff ought to know or do something about?"
Hunapo says, "Considering I stayed up four hours past my bed time in a scene last night.."
Emma says, "One thing, but somebody else is going to bring it up. >.>"
Emma says, "Or, I hope so anyway."
Feamanuslaewyn trails off, "I think there's a lot of talking about tension than actual tension..."
Tomas claims, "Yes, it's in my topic"
Misune smirks to Hunapo "Got to love those late night scenes."
Telimus puts a portable map of "Lithmore City" in a thick, silk satchel with multiple pockets.
Emma sits on Tomas' shoulder.
Kinaed asks of Emma, "If you want to send me a tell saying what it is, and if it doesn't come up, I can raise it at the end?"
Eamon questions, "Maybe not anything that serious, and maybe this is just me, but I wonder if the game could use a reminder that separating IC and OOC is critical to having a good time?"
Kinaed states to Tomas, "Ahh, okay."
Feamanuslaewyn says, "But I can't speak for everyone, so that's a bit ignorant a statement to make."
Emma points at Fean. "I wouldn't disagree with that."
Emma trails off, "Feam..."
Eamon claims, "Maybe that's too provocative."
Kinaed says to Eamon, "I agree. I've seen or heard of a lot of IC events or RP devolving into arguments on OOC lately, and my personal self just wonders 'why can't people just fight IC and leave it there'."
Kinaed claims, "Though I've only heard of the arguments second hand."
Eamon says, "I feel as if lately I've noticed people being almost unapologetic about being seriously OOCly angry over IC stuff."
Eamon nods.
Kinaed says, "So there's probably reasons it's all spilling OOC, but I would encourage people to keep it IC whenever possible."
Tomas states, "I think some of it is different perspectives on RP and how it should go/what's reasonable. some people like to make accomodations for real life, others dont' want to, thinking ic should trump all"
Tomas claims, "When you have fundamentally different views on how the game is to be played, you will get arguments"
Kinaed queries to Eamon, "In those cases, would it be appropriate to ask people to 'Please, let's just keep this discussion IC? I don't want to fight OOCly." ...?"
Kinaed queries to Tomas, "Am I ramming head first into your topic?"
Eamon states to Kinaed, "I think so! But it just occurs to me I've seen it several times lately and maybe a general reminder that IC/OOC separation keeps the game healthy is a good idea."
Tomas muses to Kinaed, "It's more tangental to my topic, but it's similar. I can send you what I wrote for my topic in a tell?"
Kinaed nods at Eamon.
Eamon claims, "That's my whole point on that, really."
Kinaed says to Tomas, "No need. I like surprises
"Kinaed nods at Eamon.
Temi states, "Or we can just go on to your topic."
Temi grins.
Kinaed says, "Okay, well. Let's wrap up Player Heartbeat then and get to the meat of this meeting - Player Topics."
Kinaed exclaims to Tomas, "You're up!"
Tomas claims, "I want to bring up a discussion of timing and pacing with the game. Recently I've seen people be dinged for moving too quickly on items, I've been told that we should remember that there is no rush to get things done with plots, it'll keep for the players to do things. At the same time, I've also seen people get dinged and ragged on for not acting quickly enough. I've seen entire litanies be directed at people while they are waiting on plot advances to go through, waiting for rp scenes with people. For instance the Order just got a massive ding for not speaking up quickly enough about the White Flame when the new Order leadership literally got put into power 5 RL days ago. Lat week I brought up just how little time we can reasonably expect people to have for scenes in a given week. But there seem to be two competing philosophies for plots going on here where you end up damned if you do and damned if you don't. And I wonder if maybe we shouldn't set up some sort of rule of thumb about reasonable expectation of when things should be able to go through, when we can expect things to be done. Elzenn has I think taken a good step towards something akin to this, processing thep lot advances for the white flame plot on the same day, though if you aren't actively involved in plot advances, you likely aren't going to be aware of that and that still doesn't do anything about the expectation. It is getting to the point where I feel like no matter what I do I'm going to get backlash for it and that is incredibly discouraging."
Temi nods.
Kinaed claims, "I think, personally, that if someone doesn't get back to you, before you get upset, it's probably appropriate to remind them at least once that you're waiting, THEN it's fine to get all sorts of unholy upset if they still don't make the effort."
Temi claims, "I've definitely seen that people want to move at different speeds on these things, and we should be able to not put people in a stressful situation for time"
Kinaed claims, "I don't see why people don't give other people the benefit of the doubt, at least OOCly."
Temi has transferred Farra. [OOC]
Eamon states, "This is such a big problem, I totally agree. I don't know if you can set up an expectation for a timeframe when everything is different, but less of... roasting people for not doing their jobs quick enough, on the PC side, might be what the doctor ordered."
Elzenn gives a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint to Farra.
Farra stops using a long, elegant, nine holed flute carved of black star pine.
Sheldon ponders.
Misune strokes chin in confusion "The order got a massive ding recently?"
Farra questions, "Can someone shoot me a tell of th topic being discussed so I'm not totally clueless?"
Telimus states, "Farra wants to be poofed into the scene."
Tomas states to Kinaed, "I dont' know. But got letters complaining about inaction on plots while waiting for plot advances to go through on the player side of things. That I wasn't moving fast enough. Then others have felt excluded for not waiting on people. "
Elzenn states, "That... was also my subject!
I have feelings about this, but there's probably a comms and a culture problem here. I am really, really not above shifting any of my pacing for you guys."Kinaed says, "I don't think we'll get people to agree on a certain time progression as standard, but in the PM world, one thing I always do is ask people when they'll get back or attach a deadline for a response."
Telimus cough cough*
Tomas states to Misune, "Yes, the ic board post that just went up about the order"
Elzenn says, "(Aaaand not that this matters, because I agree with you Tom, but the recent big Religion ding was fallout from stuff that happened weeks ago.)"
Elzenn states, "RL weeks ago."
Kinaed has transferred Silrie. [OOC]
Emma claims, "Hmmm."
Eamon states, "I think the biggest problem is people on the outside insulting people on the inside because all they see from the outside is inaction while it's a frantic whirlwind of letters and attempts to arrange meetings on the inside."
Elena has lost link.
Elena has reconnected.
Tomas states to Eamon, "Amen"
Misune nods to Tomas "To be fair, rhea died sometime towards the end of late january, the order's has several weeks to comment on that... yeah what elzenn said, but I do agree that pacing can be a problem sometimes when people don't agree on what it should be."
Farra states, "I might be jumping in line here, but I've always thought that if I, as PC, will have some RL or time-frame issues with getting a response to a big event, that I should be sure to be OOCly communicative towards those problems and work with parties involved (from other PCs to Staff) to get a resolution in a reasonable way."
Kinaed nods at Farra.
Elzenn says, "I am going to put a chunk of my intro here: I'd like to just remind everyone that even if our IC time travels faster than real time, remember that our setting has no instant comms therefore it should be realistic that things take time to get done. Please be mindful of this when you want to go on someone for perceived inaction. Also, in the realm of the plot I am running right now, a lot of people can have a chance to be involved, so please remember to touch base with others, send tells, send messengers and give people a chance to do their thing. I can slow or accelerate things as is needed, and while I have certain things planned for certain times; I definitely encourage you guys to reach out to me for plot related things if you feel like the pacing is way, way off."
Tomas claims to Misune, "I understand, but it's just an example of a general issue."
Elzenn gives a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint to Silrie.
Kinaed says, "Or even ICly communicative if it's appropriate (Hard to say I'm waiting on a plot advance response though)."
Elzenn claims, "I think just 'things take time' is an acceptable IC response."
Eamon says, "The problem is, maybe you send a letter on Day 1 so you can include everybody in your RP, you get a reply Day 3, send back a letter day 5, everybody's doing very well in designing a coordinated response that includes all relevant people... but if you're not in the letter chain, you see '5 days no response at all!' and then there's a rumor blaming the Order for doing nothing for 'weeks' since 5 days is nearly 3 ic weeks."
Eamon asks, "Those are the situations I think I keep hearing about?"
Misune nods to Tomas
Elzenn nods at Eamon.
Margaux states, "Lately I've been sending a letter on day 1, another on day 7, etc and getting nothing by day 28."
Emma agrees with Margaux.
Margaux claims, "In some instances. That is when I take action IC."
Farra says, "I don't see that as a problem, if the PC isn't involved in the communication chain. Lack of discussion is an IC problem, and if people make a choice that 'information is above X player's heads', that a consequence of 'I feel like I'm being left out slash nothing is getting done' isn't unreasonable."
Kinaed nods at Margaux.
Tomas says to Eamon, "Yeah. I've been the subject of such responses a couple of times over the current and past plots. It's part of why I was mentioning earlier the way some are strictly ic timespans and others want to make allowances for ooc circumstances and the two don't see eye to eye"
Silrie says, "There might be confusion about ic plots oocly."
Eamon has lost link.
Eamon has reconnected.
Elzenn says, "For that reason alone, people need to feel comfortable enough to reach out to people OOCly."
Eamon states, "Oops, sorry. I'll repost my last in cse:"
Tomas claims to Farra, "It's happening even with people involved in the communication train"
Farra says, "Simply sending someone who might be involved on the fringe either an IC or OOC message of 'Hey. We haven't forgotten about you. We'll try to get things going ASAP but need to get our ducks in a row' goes a long way to people, is what I've -always- found, though i'm drawing from time outside of TLI, as well."
Eamon claims, "And it is usually the Order, or the Court. People use these situations to pick on the guilds they ICly dislike, while giving the guilds they like ICly a pass. Makes sense. You're trying to slam your enemies. But it sucks for those players who took the time to try and do it slow with everybody involved. (repost)"
Elzenn states, "The plot shouldn't happen OOCly, but there's nothing stopping anyone from going 'hey, I don't understand that so-and-so' just to let them know that they feel they might be missing something."
Elzenn states, "And in fact might have; sometimes there are miscommunications/people are unintentionally forgotten/what have you."
Tomas claims to Farra, "I've seen requests to take into account ooc circumstances slammed by people before, people questioning why something is being brought ooc and to keep it ic"
Aios says to Tomas, "Next time at least there will be this forum post to direct them to."
Aios grins.
Farra queries to Tomas, "Then I think that might be a time to ask for staff help in mediating the dispute. Which sucks, but if people aren't mature enough to handle OOC communication, or forgiving enough to understand a schedule or allow for enough time to pass before blowing a fuse, that's something staff would be willing to help with? Maybe I'm wrong?"
Kinaed says, "Elzenn has informed me that her topic was covered in large part by this discussion, so I'm removing her from the list."
Temi claims, "One thing to try - if you need tomake assumptions based on OOC stuff and take it IC: please assume the best that makes sense and give the benefit of the doubt to them."
Kinaed claims to Farra, "We're always willing to help anyone with mediation."
Elena has lost link.
Elena has reconnected.
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Farra nods in agreement with Temi.
Temi claims, "So if someone isn't showing up because they are in the hospital, assume they are busy or must be out of town.. not are probably dead."
Tomas says, "Nor are they running away from their duties"
Eamon muses, "I wonder if we could draft some guidelines like that?"
Kinaed declares, "There's nothing wrong with asking someone as a follow up before getting upset also 'hey, I'm waiting on something from you. Please look to those items? Thanks!'"
Emma wonders, "On the other part of Tomas' issue... How long is long-enough to wait on someone with no response before moving on?"
Eamon asks, "As good RP courtesy practice suggestions?"
Kinaed says, "I know it might feel like Molly-coddling someone, but it's not hard if you really are waiting and interested in their response."
Misune trails off, "I personally think 2 weeks... but that's just me"
Telimus says to Eamon, "I bet you would get a nice reward if you did just that."
Tomas says to Eamon, "I think that would be good. just some general courtesy things"
Kinaed says to Eamon, "I don't think there's a good answer for that. It will differ in different situations."
Eamon muses to Emma, "Hmm! I personally would negotiate it with the person. No response, pboard to say "Hey are you on board?" and if they say "Yes, but I'm busy" try to negotiate a time?"
Emma states, "We had one individual who was codedly inactive for a couple weeks, no responses to any contact, etc. Leadership moved on without them. Leadership was then painted as somewhat villainous for moving on."
Eamon exclaims to Telimus, "I rather think it makes sense as a community thing, not just my ideas!"
Tomas says to Emma, "I generally fall in the week to two weeks without a response, even a quick tell/pboard, not necessarily an ic response"
Emma says, "Two weeks seems reasonable."
Eamon states, "I would always check OOCly with somebody before moving on."
Eamon muses, "It's more work but it really makes things feel more friendly, I think?"
Misune glances at Emma "Really? That would have been interesting to see."
Margaux says, "Two weeks is fine, yep."
Farra nods in agreement with Eamon.
Farra pontificates, "If you're going to be a jerk, at least smile OOCly!"
Kinaed says, "I think two weeks without a response on something, if I were a player, would drive me bananas."
Hunapo claims, "Well I would like to also suggest people keep their schedule in whois fairly accurate and then be considerate. Some people on't play during the days, or the weekends. If you send someone who doesn't play on the weekends a letter on friday, don't get upset if they don't espond until monday"
Emma states, "It would and will drive me bananas, but I can deal."
Kinaed nods at Hunapo.
Feamanuslaewyn sits down and rests.
Misune says, "See, what you do is at the end of the first week, you send a pboard or something of that sort, to try and see, end of second week with no response, well you move on"
Margaux wonders to Emma, "I'll make banana smoothies to help get us through?"
Eamon claims, "If you reach out OOCly and still get nothing I wouldn't even feel you need to wait two weeks. But I don't think it's always clear to someone how to respond, if they should respond, etc."
Eamon nods at Misune.
Tomas says to Hunapo, "*nods* indeed. and that reminds me I need to change my whois stuff"
Kinaed states, "I still advocate that the best thing to do in those situations is check in and see what the status is, and if you don't get a response to that, then it's an issue. I do not embrace the idea that players ought to wait for inactive players, etc."
Emma loooves bananas smoothies.
Eamon claims, "Yes, I agree with Misune completely. Pboard. Maybe they're sick, busy, maybe they're confused."
Kinaed states, "That's why the inactivity system is as it is - life has to move on at some stage from people who aren't around."
Silrie says, "Or who to respond ot? If it's court sending letters, I'd probably respond to tomas just because I know nothing about court, only that he's the head of it."
Eamon has lost link.
Eamon has reconnected.
Silrie claims, "Oocly I mean. if I was confused over something."
Eamon states, "Eek. Anyway: You can never know the meaning of someone else's silence."
Emma states, "In the situation being referenced, which is probably not a common occurrance by any stretch, the person knew they were being contacted and didn't like using the system they were contacted through, so just didn't respond."
Farra states, "Also generally speaking, the best thing to do it be -polite-. Don't do the passive-aggressive 'tell farra Well I guess if I'm not getting a response I'll just move on..' thing if you want the other person to help you out."
Emma states, "Which is fine, but"
Eamon nods at Farra.
Kinaed nods at Farra.
Emma says, "Blaming the people who repeatedly contacted you, when you never mentioned it to them... Crappy. :/"
Ofelia states to Silrie, "I feel like if you have an OOC question about court, any court player can help you. But Tom/Margaux being GLs would probably be your first go-tos."
Misune states, "Yeah, but sometimes you can't just move on when it's something substantial. For example, it would be considered rude for the order or reeves to execute a person because they've gone inactive, instead they are forced to wait quite a bit longer... so it should be rude to move on too quickly as well for non-executions"
Tomas says to Silrie, "Yeah there are lots of people you could go to, but either of us would be happy to respond. I try and respond to things as quickly as possible. Sometimes I delay a response if I need to look into something beforehand"
Kinaed claims, "We have about 13 min left, and ... eight more topics."
Kinaed asks, "Does anyone have anything salient to add before we move on?"
Farra states, "I think everyone's in agreement here. Be polite. Give people time."
Misune mouths the words 'Holy shit'
Tomas states, "Be excellent to each other."
Mika stumbles out of some nearby bushes wearing a bear suit. [OOC]
Emma declares to Tomas, "I'm wearing that shirt, right now!"
Eamon says, "Reach out (touch faith)"
Farra declaims, "Don't be mika. Hi mika!"
Mika waves.
Tomas high fives Emma
Kinaed muses, "Excellent. Okay, Silrie - you had seven topics. Can we get them one-by-one please?"
Kinaed has transferred Riette. [OOC]
Elzenn gives a whimsical bardic sceptre with a glossy gold coat of paint to Riette.
Silrie claims, "1. So this came to me the other night when trying to figure out a string and ensure it met the character limit. Could we implement a tool test or a string test command? So, like, "tool / string test insert string here" to make certain it meets the requirements? I don't currently have easy access to a word counter, and needing to find one online for a simple string can be tedious."
Mika grins.
Kinaed muses to Silrie, "Probably, jotting it down. Next item?"
Eamon says, "Can't you test it by trying it first? It won't work if it's too long."
Emma questions, "Oooh. stringcheck ?"
Eamon claims, "Right, next item."
Eamon grins.
Ofelia queries, "..in what context does the character limit pop up? I thought it automatically told you if it was too long?"
Ofelia coughs. Is quiet.
Silrie states to Eamon, "I pre-write strings sometimes."
Evrald is idle.
Silrie claims, "Sorry, it's not pasting right hang on"
Misune would fail at strings if he didn't have that one handy program
Kinaed asks of Misune, "Which program is that?"
Kinaed just ignores it, which is why all of her alts stand out like sore thumbs.
Azarial claims, "There is the @ command in the editor to give column counts; if you copy that out to 59 into a notepad wiht a fixed width font that should do most all of it"
Evrald is no longer idle.
Evrald has returned from AFK.
Misune pauses and tries to remember the spelling "Grisdmkma? I think that's the spelling?"
Silrie says, "Oh my god"
Emma claims, "Notepad+ counts all your character lengths."
Silrie says, "Wtf"
Kinaed wonders to Silrie, "Maybe just type it out?"
Oscar is idle.
Misune correction gridaksma
Feamanuslaewyn has lost link.
Eamon claims, "What Misune means, I think: http://www.gridaksma.com/tsarenzi/string.html"
Silrie says, "Ok"
Temi states, "It's just a little java applet tool"
Misune states, "But it's handy as heck"
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Feamanuslaewyn has reconnected.
Kinaed asks of Misune, "Would you mind posting a link to that on the forums?"
Takta has lost link.
Misune questions, "Yeah I can... would it fit under the new player topic area?"
Silrie says, "Oh my god this isn't working I can't copy any of them into this client and I can't write them all out and time's running out. I don't get why it's not working"
Kinaed nods at Misune.
Kinaed queries to Silrie, "It's fine. Can you just paraphrase them one by one?"
Kinaed wonders, "What's topic number two about?"
Silrie says, "They're too in depth. Just never mind."
Kinaed declares to Silrie, "If we go over time-wise, it's not a mortal sin!"
Farra says to Kinaed, "Acedia. >:("
Misune prepares the holy water "Repent!"
Farra declares to Kinaed, "Betrayal!!"
Kinaed claims to Silrie, "Okay, well... I will move on then, but please feel free if you get any of them sorted to let me know, or otherwise save them for next week."
Eamon has lost link.
Eamon has reconnected.
Kinaed asks, "Okay, the GL Barometer - has anyone had the chance to read the spec?"
Emma declaims, "Yes!"
Eamon says, "(Apologies, I don't know what's wrong with my connection)"
Silrie just nods.
Telimus says, "I glanced it."
Misune states, "I skimmed through it to get the jist of it"
Kinaed queries, "Any feedback?"
Starlyn stands up.
Starlyn begins to descend.
Starlyn leaves down.
Emma says, "I loved it. I tend to dislike the current system but can never pinpoint exactly why. The spec felt like it addressed all the things I couldn't pinpoint and remedied them."
Feamanuslaewyn queries, "Why did staff decide to change the old system?"
Kinaed pontificates to Emma, "Well, that's glowing feedback - thank you!"
Eamon states, "I love it as well. I like how there's more emphasis on having more people behind you, rather than making it about the total number of IP."
Temi says, "It felt like it was only nuclear options, really."
Temi grins at Feamanuslaewyn.
Farra says, "I -adore- it."
Margaux states, "It is so much better."
Silrie has lost link.
Silrie has reconnected.
Farra states, "I think I mentioned something to you, Kinaed, but that's a different time and place than here to discuss, maybe."
Temi says, "And got very bitter and back-bitey and promoted bad ooc feelings."
Misune states, "I rather like it, and I don't often like this kind of stuff"
Misune stabs Aios for the spam
Kinaed says to Feamanuslaewyn, "Well, people felt that it was very hard to oust someone, that the system wasn't well balanced, it was too quick on the draw and didn't give people time to respond, and that people who didn't have to put up with the GL on a day to day basis had as much say as people who didn't"
Kinaed claims, "In fact, the problems we were trying to fix are listed on the first page of the spec... let me give you a copy."
Emma patches Aios up, hissing, spitting, etc.
Elena begins to descend.
Kinaed has created the GL Barometer and Ousting Spec[1].
Elena leaves down, moving with a jingle of bells.
Kinaed gives the GL Barometer and Ousting Spec to Feamanuslaewyn.
Silrie has left the game.
Aios trails off, "Sorry all, wish reading didn't spam *g* Maybe in OOC rooms it should be silent or something...."
Silrie wanders into the vicinity. [login]
Aios states, "Since there are often new specs and such."
Kinaed says to Aios, "I'll make a note of that."
Feamanuslaewyn looks at a book in his hands.
Eamon pontificates, "Great idea!"
Tomas says, "Yeah so far this has addressed everything that I had a problem with with the old system"
Misune says, "Ooh... that is actually a great idea... also aios I was more so joking with you. "
Feamanuslaewyn says, "I see. I like this. It allows for far more political nuance."
Aios says, "Plus I mucked up my first attempt with my scroll limit, so ended up spamming more -_-"
Eamon says, "I like how legitimate the system feels now."
Silrie has lost link.
Silrie has reconnected.
Feamanuslaewyn states, "Just like real life."
Silrie wonders, "Can I try on this client?"
Kinaed claims, "Mind, in implementing it, that doesn't mean that we won't discover problems with the new system, but I like to think it's part of change that we're always focusing on better problems."
Eamon claims, "No more people complaining that a GLA is sneaky and bad, that there's somehow a more official way to solve the problem."
Temi says, "We at least don't think there's serious problems going into it, which is never a good sign."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Kinaed claims, "I'm glad the feedback seems so positive."
Emma sneezes loudly.
Sheldon is idle.
Aios wonders, "Does "number of guild supporters" follow chains? Like I I support Emma and Emma supports Misune, is that one person for Misune, or 2, or 1.5, etc?"
Azarial states, "Well, poison is fairly official that someone dind;t like you."
Aios states, "Like if I*"
Kinaed states, "Okay, well Azarial is currently working on this, so fingers crossed that it's a thing of beauty."
Farra questions, "I have one suggestion that's more a tweak to the support/subvert system; should I post it to the forums?"
Emma declaims, "I would never!"
Kinaed claims to Farra, "You can, or you can raise it here."
Kinaed asks, "Does anyone mind if we stay a bit longer so Silrie can raise her topics?"
Emma claims, "I don't mind at all."
Tomas claims, "I don't mind"
Silrie states, "If it even works."
Telimus states, "Eh. Sure."
Ofelia says, "I'm good."
Kinaed claims, "Thank you. If it's too long for anyone, let me know and I'll retrans you."
Evrald claims, "Go for it Sil
"Kinaed states to Farra, "Sorry, didn't mean to derail you."
Farra states, "I think there should be a seperate slot people get to subvert someone, in addition to the slots they already can use for support/subversion. I think there's a lot of OOC ease-of-use to rather build someone up than tear them down. I think it'd make the city of lithmore a much more interesting place if people were given a bit more freedom to subvert while not taking away existing supports to allow it."
Kinaed says to Silrie, "Please let Farra raise her support suggestion."
Kinaed nods at Farra.
Misune states, "I don't mind"
Kinaed claims, "I think this was raised before and I'm inclined to agree with the suggestion."
Farra says, "So like, if we already have two support/subvert slots, you keep those but gain another optional subert only slot."
Silrie says, "I had a question about houses and gardens for freemen. Okay, this is kind of a two-part question, and it's probably been brought up before I began playing, but hey, doesn't hurt to ask again! Is there any way you'd consider upping the limit of rooms on freeman houses from ten to twelve? I only ask because, having a freeman character who is also a herbalist and a cook, a lot of the spaces are and will be taken up by gardens. I do understand that freemen aren't meant to have lavish mansions, and I totally get that. I also get learning how to consolidate some space so you don't waste the space alotted. But for a concept, and this probably happens with more than just me, it's not so much a matter, sometimes, of not being able to aford what I want, it's a space issue. And while I manage all right right now, I think even two more rooms could help. Now, if that's just not in the cards, for freemen who own gardens, might it be possible to up the limit of plants in those gardens from ten to fifteen or twenty? Like, could we pay for plot increases, only up to a certain limit, of course, but for herbalists who are also freemen, this would keep the house room limit the same without us having to sacrifice building an actual home and just living in a ten room TI-style Botanical Garden."
Kinaed nods at Farra.
Emma states, "I wouldn't mind if you had infinite support and subvert slots, but how thinly spread you are determines how much or little support or subversion you're actually providing."
Kinaed says to Silrie, "Apologies, I'll answer that in a moment."
Silrie claims, "Sorry."
Aios queries to Emma, "That would be interesting, like 100% to one person, 50% to two, 10% if you support/subvert 10 people?"
Silrie says, "I didn't even look first."
Emma states, "Yeah exactly."
Kinaed declaims to Silrie, "No worries!"
Farra states, "Personally, I don't like that quite so much, given we've got the approve/disapprove system already."
Riette nods at Emma.
Kinaed says, "I'll have to think about that. It doesn't work well with our current system."
Farra claims, "I think it'd allow people to be TOO supported."
Kinaed says, "I do like giving people support and subvert slots though."
Kinaed questions, "Any further comments?"
Eamon claims, "I like one subvert slot. I think we generally have enough slots now that one subvert-only slot is enough."
Ofelia states, "I really like Emma's idea, actually. I think you should be putting time into supporting/subverting someone."
Eamon claims, "But my alts don't use support much."
Riette states, "I've always liked the idea as a resource allocation game. The more you spread your support, the less weighty it is for each person."
Ofelia says, "You can't 100% support everyone you support."
Silrie states, "Freemen should get more than 2 slots XD"
Ofelia states to Silrie, "You can if people support you."
Tomas says to Silrie, "The more people who support you the more slots you get, up to 5"
Riette claims, "So you have to make decisions on what's more important, and you don't run into the problem of wishing you had just one more slot for this or that."
Ofelia claims, "You get more slots/more influence the more people support you."
Silrie has lost link.
Silrie has reconnected.
Eamon claims, "I like having to choose by your somewhat limited slots, though."
Farra says, "My worry is making it based on how many slots you're using will create something closer to a Meta Game. 'If I want to make a difference do I stop supporting my GL? Well that kinda sucks..'"
Eamon states, "I feel it's a meaningful choice."
Farra claims, "Whereas the Slots are intended to simulate how much time and influence your character has already."
Margaux needs to step out to make breakfast and spend some time with her kids. Later all.
Emma exclaims, "Later Marg!"
Eamon states, "It seems like a big code revision for probably minor benefit at most, to me personally."
Margaux waves.
Riette states, "I'm fine if it's not in the cards, it's just my personal preference! And I also like the idea of the number of slots being available to be the same in spite of social class, but social class should change the worth of the support."
Riette claims, "Which I think also doesn't work with the system."
Tomas states to Farra, "I think right now it's already very gamey. I've had so many conversations with people in the past where it's 'i won't support you unless I get your support' and lots of gaming the system with number of support slots"
Kinaed states, "I'm not sure if it is a meaningful choice - it's like everyone saying they all want a nice job, happy family, good career - all in the positives, but everyone wants those things, so it's meaningless - with support, it's the same thing. People tend to bias towards positive support instead of subvert for numerous reasons."
Farra pontificates, "I can post this to the forums to open it up for more elaborate discussion, since we've a few threads of ideas!"
Farra nods at Kinaed.
Oscar is no longer idle.
Oscar has returned from AFK.
Margaux begins to descend.
Margaux leaves down.
Kinaed states to Farra, "Please do."
Misune will subvert everyone and not feel bad about it one bit
Kinaed says, "Okay, let's move that request to forums, and let's talk Silrie's comment about can we have larger freeman phomes."
Feamanuslaewyn has lost link.
Telimus states, "I fully support the idea."
Kinaed states, "I'm inclined to say no. That is something I feel is a meaningful choice and a meaningful limit."
Eamon says, "I would prefer allowing freemen to buy stone homes if they can afford it. Wood is 10 rooms to make stone homes worthwhile."
Emma says, "Number of rooms doesn't have to indicate worth of rooms or amount of land possessed."
Silrie says, "Ok."
Farra states, "I think a freeman, if they want fancy things, should take the IC steps outlined .. somewhere .. to become gentry, first."
Elzenn states, "I also angle on the side of no, because I think people need to be actively conscious of their choices."
Sheldon is no longer idle.
Sheldon has returned from AFK.
Misune trails off, "I kind of have to agree with kinaed, regarding the room limit... your concept should work around your limitations, not have your limitations work around your concept, however gardends having more space would be nice"
Eamon claims, "The stone home thing is weird, though. It's not IC law."
Kinaed asks, "Should gardens be increased for size, or are the current limits reasonable for a garden?"
Emma states, "Ehh, I don't think she meant fancy things. More like, if you're a Freeman who has a farm - you might have one crappy one-room wattle home, but (being ridiculous for the same of example) 15 farm rooms."
Misune queries, "It's ten plants per room right? "
Aios says to Eamon, "Could be the equivalent of a credit check. "Nah, you're nobody, I don't care what dirty money you have we're not building you a castle.""
Riette claims, "They seem reasonable, it's just another hard choice thing like everything else."
Temi nods at Misune.
Riette claims, "Limits are necessary to give anything value."
Elzenn says to Emma, "I feel like it's still land, which a freemand would have a hard time procuring."
Farra claims, "I think, again, it's enough. I'm a jerk and all that, but freemen aren't supposed to, thematically, own large swathes of land or extensive gardens."
Kinaed questions, "Are there any serious issues to raising that to 20?"
Temi states, "And 'farm' flag rooms will be 3 'herds' per room."
Mika muses to Kinaed, "For plants?"
Kinaed nods at Mika.
Azarial doubts there ought to be farms inside the walls.
Kinaed states, "Not sure how staff feel about it."
Telimus claims, "I think spending more money on it would be nice. Like upgrading your garden and such."
Mika states, "I think that would be rad"
Silrie muses, "Wait, what does that mean?"
Eamon wonders, "20 plants in one garden room makes me drool with excitement but it almost feels like too much?"
Kinaed states to Silrie, "Well, the reason you want more rooms is because your gardens are limited."
Silrie wonders, "Farm rooms. You can only put three animals, if you will, in one room?"
Misune questions, "What about having it be an upgrade? Like you have to pay to increase the limit"
Kinaed nods at Misune.
Emma claims, "Oooh. What Misune said."
Elzenn says to Silrie, "Three herds, which are the animal producing item."
Kinaed states, "I'll talk with staff about this after."
Telimus states, "I like the idea of having it upgradeable, anyway."
Elzenn claims, "..for lack of a better way to put it."
Kinaed wonders, "We have... 5 more items?"
Kinaed questions to Silrie, "Did you want to ask your next one?"
Takta has reconnected.
Emma says, "It's Takta. o.o"
Silrie claims, "Six. The last one's just a simple question though. I just tacked it on. it's just yes, or no. not an iea."
Silrie says, "Idea"
Takta states, "Ahem."
Kinaed nods at Silrie.
Silrie states, "3. Hidden actions. When I say hidden actions, I mean the coded things, not the emoted actions. Eating, drinking, handing something off to another person. Can we have an option to do these things surruptitiously? Make it like hemote, where people can catch you doing it, but I can't count the number of times where I've wanted to playfully grab something or drink medicine while Sil's tryinna be all yeah I'm not sick discreet or, since pets can do pretty much everything we can barring a few things, have Oberon nab a piece of food without me having to hemote first and then order it to grab it, etc. I think it could add fun depth to rp."
Kinaed states, "That may be codewise difficult because we'd probably have to write something for every command to give a hidden option."
Silrie says, "Oooh"
Silrie claims, "Okay, nm! XD moving on moving fast. sorry"
Silrie muses, "4. In home trainers. One of the custom things we can add to our homes. Would in home trainers be one of them? And if so, can they be less costly than the ones in the Park Street hall? Ten silver a session instead of 25 maybe, especially if we put out like 2000 silver for them at the outset? LOL okay so I'm just pulling a number out of my ear, but I'd guess that if they were permitted, they'd be rather costly initially. I definitely would say, spar with other players as you can, but most of them are Knights / Reeves, and they have a lot of other duties to handle. My characters aren't combat characters, and they're not in combat-based guilds. So I also kind of feel weird about asking a Knight or Reeve to teach them things that won't be put into practical, protect the city use save in quite dire situations and in some cases, not at all. But I'd like to learn, and that's where I think a trainer could come in handy. I get where some might say, well isn't the initial cost a lot? I'd agree, but over time, 25 silver a lesson, especially if it's a quick lesson, would blow right past that mark. I think it might actually be less expensive in the long run if it's allowed?"
Aios says, "Responded too slow, but there's the palm command for getting stuff secretly, could maybe extend it to be able to drop or give as well.. just sayin'."
Silrie states, "Didn't know about palm lol"
Kinaed says, "No in home trainers"
Kinaed questions, "Next?"
Takta says, "(It's come up a lot before)"
Silrie wonders, "5. Candles. For the sake of realism, can we have a new brand of candle and hearth that requires a fire lighting tool to light? I just like the idea that it doesn't just magically light if you're standing there naked holding just a candle. I'm a prop person though. LOL I know people might hate that, which is why I was thinking maybe it can be a recipe or something rather than just replacing the old ones?"
Kinaed nods at Takta.
Tomas coughs. Sorry
Temi claims, "I think that might be a step too far towards realism"
Telimus wonders about what kind of candles Silrie is lighting... >>
Misune stands in the rain with his candle and by sheer will alone he lights it
Emma mumbles, "Tomas is my in-home trainer, he just doesn't know it yet."
Silrie rolls her eyes at Telimus.
Silrie says, "Ok."
Silrie queries, "6. Inspecting something for damage. Repair inspect object will only let you inspect things, it seems, if you have the skill to repair them. Can we have a simple inspect command that can tell us whether or not the object could actually use a repair even if we can't repair it ourselves?"
Temi claims, "If you're standing there naked with a candle, do feel free you don't have anything to light it"
Mika claims, "(and unrealistic if you're a fire mage with no lighter)"
Temi says, "To RP"
Takta states, "Inv state/eq state, Silrie."
Kinaed states, "I think it's nice to have, but not worth coding (candles). "
Riette states, "You can do inv state."
Riette states, "Or eq- yeah."
Kinaed states to Silrie, "That seems reasonable, so I'll add it - but note it may take time as it's not a high priority change."
Kinaed queries to Silrie, "Next?
"Riette states, "And with candles, there are tinder and flint objects you can buy, I want to say from the general store? So you can RP with the prop. And you can do 'light candle using tinder and flint' or whatever you want. Light and snuff take emotes."
Silrie states, "7. Removing things from others. Might we one day have a remove command where we can take things from other people without them needing to be restrained? Hang on, I know how that can be abused, but I was thinking the person would need to approve the taking? So, for example, "remove Jack slippers." Then maybe Jack would see something along the lines of, "Starlyn would like to remove your slippers. Type remove allow or remove disallow to accept or reject this action." And, on the flip side, dressing people as opposed to undressing? I'm thinking of scenes where a sister might help another into her wedding gown or put flowers in her hair or if you have a child npc or maybe you're a pc maid even with a spoiled pc mistress, dressing them, etc. Granted, I know you can just roleplay all of that, but I think it could enhance the rp in its own way right along with the actual rp scene."
A rolled beeswax candle is sculpted to resemble a honeycomb flares momentarily blue in Misune's hands.
A beeswax candle shows the watchful Eye of Justice when lit flares momentarily blue in Hunapo's hands.
Misune snuffs a rolled beeswax candle is sculpted to resemble a honeycomb.
Temi states, "I think if you're not in a forcing them position, just RPing it with their cooperation is better."
Kinaed states to Silrie, "Sounds nice, but it may again be difficult. I'll think on it, but don't expect it any time soon."
Eamon states, "Not that it isn't neat, but it just seems like work for a really minor benefit."
Temi claims, "For code simplicity."
Telimus is REALLY wondering what type of candles Silrie is lighting!
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Elzenn says, "That can easily be RPed, though. To be entirely fair, with the other person removing things."
Silrie glares at Telimus. Not everyone's a born perv.
"