Theme - Knights Arrest Mages

[Kinaed]

I''ve had three people in the last week ask me if other people besides knights can arrest mages, so I thought I'd answer this for everyone. Theoretically, anyone can physically do whatever they want to, BUT thematically, only knights arrest mages. Thematically, this is because they're elite, specially trained mage-hunting paladins. This is their RP and their core concept. Please don't usurp it for whatever reason. If this is the RP you want, please make a knight character.

Thematically, Davites believe that tangling with a mage can destroy one's soul and chances of making it to the Lord of the Springs in afterlife. The mere presence of a mage can taint others around them. To give everyone a sense of what this might feel like to a Davite, think about what it'd feel if you were told someone near you was a violent terrorist with a bomb strapped to him at the local shopping mall. If you heard about this potential mass murderer in your immediate vicinity, would you try to tackle them, put handcuffs on them, and try to haul them to the police? Most people would just be afraid of the bomb. In Davite terms, if someone wouldn't be, then either they don't believe bomb exists (clearly not a Davite) or they're mentally ill (thematically a sign of magery). Either way, the Order has a reason to be interested, and not because they're thanking the random stranger for being the hero of the day.

If you encounter a mage and don't know what to do - please consider doing the same things rational people do in the violent terrorist situation - They might run and hide. They might get too petrified to run, like a deer caught in headlights. They might call the Order. If the Order doesn't respond, they might approach them and inform about what they saw, who did it, etc. They'd probably help the authorities to the best of their ability - any of those things or some variant. This is RPing realistically and thematically, and it lets the authorities actually RP their role out. Otherwise, there's no reason to even have knight PCs.

For people who are worried that the mage might get away - well, maybe... but what what's wrong with that? The mage will get to fight another day, but is that really so terrible? No one is 'losing the game' or 'losing the encounter' if a mage gets away. It's not a civilian responsibility to catch the mage at all. If they get away completely and never log in again, it's still no skin off anyone's nose. In fact, it means more encounters, and more fun for everyone as the Order and Knights engage in cat and mouse.

This goes the same for people trying to arrest Criminals on behalf of Reeves also. Please just don't.

From the staff perspective:
- We will help Knights/Reeves of appropriate rank to arrest who have issues on arrest, provided it makes sense that the arrest is going their way (ie, if an arrested player drops link, we throw them in jail, for example).
- We will not help non-Knights or non-Reeves jail mages/criminals, even for RPA. Our stance is wait for the authorities. Please stop asking us.

[Geras]

I support the intent here, but I hope this isn't taken to too high and extreme. I don't think mages should feel safe just because there aren't any Orderites around.

[Kinaed]

I doubt open mages feel safe at all.

We have had problems with mages who seem to only come out of the woodwork when knights aren't on - but that's actually why we installed whoinvis.

[Voxumo]

I doubt open mages feel safe at all.

We have had problems with mages who seem to only come out of the woodwork when knights aren't on - but that's actually why we installed whoinvis.

Yep, it's part of the reason I almost always have misune on with Whoinvis on. Bam! Lurking Knight to the rescue!

And thank you Kinaed for addressing this. I know I've tried to do this icly in the past, but well we know how it turned out, but it's nice to see it stated in a rather official manner, maybe not to the severity I tried to Icly, but still getting the point across of 'letting the Knights do their job'.

[Tremere]

People who aren't knights shouldn't be going out there trying to arrest mages, but I think it is entirely appropriate that if the Knights ask for assistance, then assistance can be used. Because of our not very high number of knights, getting enough people to do an arrest properly can be rather difficult. Knights should be the first line of defense, but others helping where asked... I don't think people should be condemned for that.

[Voxumo]

People who aren't knights shouldn't be going out there trying to arrest mages, but I think it is entirely appropriate that if the Knights ask for assistance, then assistance can be used. Because of our not very high number of knights, getting enough people to do an arrest properly can be rather difficult. Knights should be the first line of defense, but others helping where asked... I don't think people should be condemned for that.

And no one is saying they should, it's when people start arresting/fighting mages of their own accord.

[Geras]

I doubt open mages feel safe at all.

We have had problems with mages who seem to only come out of the woodwork when knights aren't on - but that's actually why we installed whoinvis.

Well, you know how I play mages. They don't come out of the woodwork at all lol.

[Geras]

I think dealing with it IC is good though. I definitely have been smacked by Orderites pissed off about this, and my character took it to heart.

[Dice]

I agree with Tremere we need to be careful not to demonize people who chip in under a Knight's guidance, and I'd go so far as to say we should accept there are people who -do- have combat skills, IC confidence, etc. in perfectly legitimate amounts to deal with mage/demon threats that come their way. Your character doesn't have to be a heretic or mentally ill to be willing to join a large Knight-led posse to fight against a demon, or to fight back when a mage is throwing magic around in front of them. I wouldn't want us to pathologize people seizing those chances for interesting RP when they come across them organically.

But I'd draw the line at actively seeking out that kind of RP, hunting for demons or mages - that to me is where it becomes ICly suspicious/unusual, and OOCly becomes potentially problematic in ways we can't discuss ICly.

How is it OOCly problematic?

What I think people think sometimes is that they want the fun RP of being involved in mage/demon fighting, etc., but actually being a Knight or Orderite sounds like a drag because you have responsibilities, codes of conduct, etc. But, well, that's the point! The responsibilities represent things that need to happen, and are the trade-off for access to that RP.

As much as this is a game we all play for fun, it's everybody's game, and we should try to think about others' enjoyment as well as ours. We should ask ourselves, "Am I cutting other people out of this RP? Am I taking RP from someone who's done the legwork, the sponsorship scenes, the training scenes, meeting all the IC promotion requirements, to earn it?"

And it's problematic not just for the sake of the people playing Knights at any given time. There's also a self-fulfilling prophecy that can happen: if people infringe on Knight RP enough because there aren't Knights around, there's no reason to be a Knight because your RP is being taken away, and if there's no reason to be a Knight, there are no Knights!

Respecting guild sovereignty keeps guilds healthy and active, and guilds ensure that some critical game functions are likely to be handled, as well as providing great entry into RP for PCs who might otherwise be isolated and alone.

So as much as we should deal with this ICly, I'm glad to also see it discussed OOCly, because there are a lot of things to consider.

[Voxumo]

The way I see civilians fighting mages/demons on their own without a knight or being knight-led is similar to how the Merchants guild handles people who sell items without a license or joining the guild, illegal. Its the same scenario, just the knights side of it is more dangerous.

I mean you wouldn't bat an eye if the merchants guild sought legal action against someone selling without their permission, or running a business without their permission, but god forbid someone fights a mage they might as be a hero. And then when they get injured fighting the mage, it's almost always turned on us icly "This person wouldn't have been injured if the Knights just did their jobs!"

And fighting a mage still shouldn't be a person's first thought. Kinaed used a very good example. Magery is something that should be feared, something that should be avoided. Only those who have went through the training required should have the mental fortitude to stand up against magery, and even then it should leave a scar on them, mentally, spiritually and physically. I mean awhile I remember being a scene where someone mentioned "The only difference between a knight and a regular fighter is the fancy title." That shouldn't be the mentality people have, icly especially.

I mean yeah, allowing people to fight mages and demons even when knight led is a double-edged. But when we have a playerbase the size we do and lack of knights... well you have to give the benefit of the doubt and that people will come up with logical reasons why the knights would ask for their help.