Theme - Knights Arrest Mages

[Geras]

But I'd draw the line at actively seeking out that kind of RP, hunting for demons or mages - that to me is where it becomes ICly suspicious/unusual, and OOCly becomes potentially problematic in ways we can't discuss ICly.

I actually think the IC and OOC issues are pretty similar. What's the old line - why is stealing illegal? Because the government doesn't like competition.

Same goes here. If you usurp the Order's job, they're going to be pissed at you. Same goes for the Reeves.

I definitely the agree with the point re: joining a posse. I'm not as familiar with magic as I was, but it seems that a lot of the game mechanics still revolve around numbers. Want to beat a demon or a mage? Bring friends. That's worth keeping in mind.

[chronodbu]

The biggest problem I've seen regarding this is how many people feel the need to rush the mage. It's understandable that the character may be fearful of or have a hatred for magery or maybe even developing a pitchfork mob mentality. What isn't acceptable is the player mentality behind it of 'OH MY GOD IT'S A MAGE. DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY'. The mentality turns it into a competition rather than a story.

[Gerolf]

So I have a few thoughts to throw out there.

To abuse Kinky's analogy, I always viewed the Reeves as the police and local law enforcement and the knights as the FBI. The knights and order are going to try their darnedest to stop that bomb from going off, but once it does it is all hands on deck. I have viewed the Knights as taking the lead but the Reeves need to see about getting people away from the scene.

Occasionally the Reeves are the first responders, and maybe the only responders (for reasons mentioned elsewhere). What are they supposed to do then? They can't very well just ride in and watch someone get PKed because they aren't knights. Can you imagine the rumors? "Did you see those reeves? They just sat there and watched as Evil McBadguy filled that poor girl full of lighting!" Doesn't seem plausible to me. What seems more likely is that the reeves are going to ride in and go "Shit. Well we do what we were trained for. One of us is going to ride head long into this while the other gets everyone else away."



I don't think they should seek out mages. They aren't mage -hunters- but they are there to defend the people.

Second, the Longest Night, while one of the best staff run stories, left a lot of amateurs out there from the the collective experience. My character was at three of the stories and on the teams that swept the street of the astral creatures. Ergo he has a lot of experience with mages and demons (more than most of the existing knight roster). Even Ariel came into the knights knowing more about magic and demons than most of the knights on the list. The "specialized training" argument doesn't hold much water, in my opinion.

Again, in broad strokes, only the knights and order should be doing investigations and arrests BUT there is a certain set of extenuating circumstances that preclude mages being Order only RP.

[Voxumo]

Ergo he has a lot of experience with mages and demons (more than most of the existing knight roster). Even Ariel came into the knights knowing more about magic and demons than most of the knights on the list. The "specialized training" argument doesn't hold much water, in my opinion.

Knights don't technically know alot about magic and demons, they should just know better ways to combat and handle them, such as the arrest methods. Ideally Knights would have special combat tactics to handling mages that would prove effective, but code doesn't exist to handle it. And as for non-knights/order folks knowing more about magic and demons than those in the Order... That equates to people sticking their noses into things they shouldn't, and this should quite frankly be something that is investigated by the order. Why would Joe Schmo know so much about magic and demons if he isn't apart of the order, unless he is a mage himself? I mean be they freeman or Noble that should be grounds for suspicion.

[Gerolf]

Why would Joe Schmo know so much about magic and demons if he isn't apart of the order, unless he is a mage himself? I mean be they freeman or Noble that should be grounds for suspicion.

Because you taught me yourself?

[Tremere]

I think that it is certainly thematic for if people saw a mage they would run scared. I also think it is thematic and realistic that if someone is being attacked by a mage, the people would and should come to help them. If there is a clear and present danger I think it's up to the individual character. I think it is ridiculous to say 'hey your friend is being attacked, you can't defend them because it's a sin' I would counter that it runs completely against the orders theme of giving and helping others. Should they -hunt- a mage? No, absolutely not unless asked by a Knight. That would be a sin. But if something is happening in the moment and it is a reaction to the circumstances that are going on, I think people should have a right to act. If we set this stipulation that it's a sin to even defend yourself or your fellows against an active attack, it will be going to a ridiculous extreme. Past efforts at 'vigilante' laws tried to criminalize both people acting in self defense and people assisting knights when asked and that's why people icly were against them. At least from what I saw of the rp.

[Voxumo]

I think there is a difference between self-defense and blatant attacking. For example, if I were to be attacked by a mage, and I wasn't a knight, my reaction wouldn't be to fight the mage until one of us dies or is beaten to a pulp, it would be to fight a mage until I can escape or others come to help me escape. Escaping the supernatural danger should be the accepted response, not fight the supernatural danger to the death. I mean yeah, pkill policy clearly states that death in self-defense is a clearly acceptable pkill, but just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should or that it should be the only option.

Why would Joe Schmo know so much about magic and demons if he isn't apart of the order, unless he is a mage himself? I mean be they freeman or Noble that should be grounds for suspicion.

Because you taught me yourself?

What?

[Tremere]

I am not saying that people should defend themselves and then -kill- the mage, but what you are talking about Vox seems to imply that even defending yourself against a mage and fighting it, helping a friend to defend them should be a sin and I just don't believe that is a good way to approach it. Not in a game where getting an active knight online is difficult enough. It would most certainly be a sin if they sat there and murdered a mage or if they hunted down a mage. But acting to defend people when they are under attack just plain shouldn't be a sin.

[Voxumo]

I am not saying that people should defend themselves and then -kill- the mage, but what you are talking about Vox seems to imply that even defending yourself against a mage and fighting it, helping a friend to defend them should be a sin and I just don't believe that is a good way to approach it. Not in a game where getting an active knight online is difficult enough. It would most certainly be a sin if they sat there and murdered a mage or if they hunted down a mage. But acting to defend people when they are under attack just plain shouldn't be a sin.

I'm not saying it would be a sin, all I'm saying is that Fleeing should be the top priority. If you have a friend being attacked by a bear, do you and friend stay fight the bear? No, you attempt to get away, with fighting the bear being the last option. You can defend yourself, but that doesn't mean you have to continue the fight. Your friends can help you flee, but the choice action shouldn't be to continue the fight. It should be to escape with your life. This is especially true with Magery. Magery is something to fear, or at least it was. Why would you stay and fight something your character has been practically taught since birth to fear? Or at least a good davite would be taught to fear magery so as to avoid it. You typically avoid what you fear.

[Pixie]

I am not saying that people should defend themselves and then -kill- the mage, but what you are talking about Vox seems to imply that even defending yourself against a mage and fighting it, helping a friend to defend them should be a sin and I just don't believe that is a good way to approach it. Not in a game where getting an active knight online is difficult enough. It would most certainly be a sin if they sat there and murdered a mage or if they hunted down a mage. But acting to defend people when they are under attack just plain shouldn't be a sin.

I'm not saying it would be a sin, all I'm saying is that Fleeing should be the top priority. If you have a friend being attacked by a bear, do you and friend stay fight the bear? No, you attempt to get away, with fighting the bear being the last option. You can defend yourself, but that doesn't mean you have to continue the fight. Your friends can help you flee, but the choice action shouldn't be to continue the fight. It should be to escape with your life. This is especially true with Magery. Magery is something to fear, or at least it was. Why would you stay and fight something your character has been practically taught since birth to fear? Or at least a good davite would be taught to fear magery so as to avoid it. You typically avoid what you fear.

Oh my god I agree with Voxumo on something. The bear metaphor makes perfect sense to me.