[Poll] Familiarity (RPxp) Required for Finish

[Lei]

An assassin stalking their victim and learning their routine isn't interacting with that person. They're hiding, and sneaking, and probably don't want to blow their cover by actually interacting with their mark before it's go time.

Are there people putting hits out on brand new cyan newbies? Is this really a worry? I don't think that's an issue we're dealing with, or will be. Cnotes are there. We've got other rules to counter twinkling. If it is a worry, maybe cyans should be given an extra layer of protection from the get-go -- can't be PKed before a certain threshold of RPXP is met.

Death scenes should be meaningful. I think that they can be meaningful and excellently RPed without this extra constraint.

But, as always. My thoughts. Certainly not bible truth.

[Zeita]

Entirely tangential side note, but I'd pay good money for 'The Bible by Lei'.

[Leech]

The least fun I had on this game was PKing and dying. For one reason or another, those always left me feeling equal parts bitter and disappointed.

The most fun I've had on any MUD was the constant interplay of interpersonal relationships, especially when they were antagonistic. Ariel vs Casimir, Naer vs Gavin. I've chopped off people's fingers, taken their eyes, pushed them off balconies, let them stick their hand down my pants, manipulated people with sex, hunted demons, and poisoned somebody during a duel.

I've only ever outright PKed two people in TI. And not for lack of trying. And I've played 4+ years, across three different mains.

If your definition of grimy, gritty fun begins and ends at PK, there is something horribly wrong. There are a lot of reasons why a MUD might not feel antagonistic. The inability to kill your fellow man is not one of them. There are plenty of other MUDs out there that put up roadblocks to PK, yet manage to do antagonism quite splendidly.

I've quickly learned that the best way to do antagonism wrong, however, is to put it in the hands of players that don't understand that they are there to promote the story of others, rather than shut down their role play. That's generally what death does.

You want antagonism? The world is filled with inspiration. Socio-economic conflicts, conflicts of racism, open terrorism, divides between the rich and the poor. Part of me feels like this isn't really wanted though, because every time it's brought up it seems to get swept under the rug. Often times any potential Southside conflict is patched up with copious donations that suddenly make it "okay" that they are for the most part second class citizens. There's a whole city in the sewers, of people that probably subsist on rats. The Crown is ran by the daughter of a pseudo-hedonist (if you're reading this Cellan, I <3 you), and an effort hasn't been mounted (at least in my play time) to ever find any Harmon blood that survived the plague.

The inspiration is there. Staff aren't going to do these things for you, and more PK is a temporary and often unfulfilling fix. You either provide that dark, gritty antagonism for yourself and others, or you get it elsewhere, basically.

(And no, Voxumo, I'm not some special occasion. I really believe everyone can do this, and other players prove that time and time again. In the words of Shia, just do it.)

[Voxumo]

But if I logged in and the first time and got killed? If I put time and effort and heart into making up a characters background time and again to see them toasted by some Assassin I'd never met randomly? Yeah, I wouldn't play, honestly.

I feel you are forgetting the biggest thing that makes TI different from many of the larger MUDS, at least from what I've told as I don't play any other MUDs, that TI staff actually do their jobs.

You can't log in for the first time and be killed, Cyan protection, and if you no longer cyan the killer still has to have proper cnotes to justify the killing. If you've never rped with that person, or aren't allied with someone who has created reason for them to target you, then you have nothing to worry about. If they do kill you without justification, you will get your character back from dead, rp surrounding the death will be nulled and typically the killer will be punished through ooc means by staff for not following policy.

Also the time requirement does nothing to prevent random killings. It's quite easy to amount ten hours with another person without ever even posing to them. As long as they are in the same room, and posing even if it's not with you, that familiarity gains. Also the whole argument of old player decides to go on killing spree, just as doable as typically old players mean alot of connections/rp. Said character could have been someone you just met on the street and happened to be in the same room with enough. Boom by all rights you could die and the requirement would be met.

Except it wouldn't... Because justifiable means to kill is required. This little familiarity requirement is not what is protecting you, nor was it ever what was protecting people, except those who purposefully abuse it to screw over others by avoiding them in rp, but using their influence to screw them over via other means. The only thing that has protected unjust deaths is the cnote and justification requirement.

[Starstarfish]

I feel you are forgetting the biggest thing that makes TI different from many of the larger MUDS, at least from what I've told as I don't play any other MUDs, that TI staff actually do their jobs.

Again, I'm pretty new here, only played a few months. And all of my interactions with the staff have always been pleasant and lovely, they seem like a genuine group of people. So I don't doubt them at all, however, this thread exists and shows they do change policies (sometimes rather quickly) based on player feedback, and therefore this is me giving feedback. I will unlikely be able to attend this week's OOC chat to say these things then, so I'm just putting it across now.

Are we going to re-implement systems people have to counteract this new change? Are we bringing back say ... piety? (Read the helpfile) Or some ability for the Order to do something tangible about mages in combat?

You can't log in for the first time and be killed, Cyan protection,

Having read through the helpfiles I could find, there's nothing that seems to specifically state you can't kill cyans, so if that is a thing (which it no doubt should be) that's not spelled out, so if that's one of those people just know things, again, sorry, pretty new overall. The cyan protection is showing them the helpfile that what they are doing might earn them enemies and they might be a "victim" but it's not spelled out specifically that means people killing you. Which, maybe that should be obvious but who knows what previous experience with such things some new players might have.

But I'm thinking I should bow out here, I doubt we'll come to an agreement, and honestly, this conversation and some of the ideas expressed in it are dampening my RP enjoyment, so I'm going to step away.

[Rabek]

Cnotes already exist as a check against abuse. Familiarity isn't really necessary besides.

To add to that, familiarity actively prevents certain concepts and actions, like using a third party (assassin, etc) to kill a target.

[Kinaed]

Cyans can be Pkilled; Cyan protection is basically around requiring people support and inform Cyans throughout the RP, and give them options to back down/out before things get to a terminal point. The biggest problem we've had as staff with this is a cyan 'warning' actually being used as an OOC pressure/deterrant rather than a learninig experience.

Therefore, it depends entirely on how the PKer enacts a PK against a cyan, what the cyan was doing, and if it seems to be keeping in line with our supportive RP environment.