Klaetela claims, "I can help."
Kinaed states to Klaetela, "Thank you
"Kinaed muses, "Today's Agenda is:
- Staff Updates
- Player Heartbeat
- Player Topics
Is there anything anyone would like to add to the agenda to make certain we discuss it today?"
Kinaed states, "Note: I have 4 topics to raise on behalf of others right now. Well, three and one of my own.
"Vicannia I have a few more staff focused things I'd like to ask, two, but only if there is time at the end
say I have one, if there's time.
Klaetela claims, "I have one, if there's time."
Kinaed nods at Vicannia.
Kinaed queries, "I'll put Vicannia down first, then Klaetela, then my stuff. Anyone else?"
Kinaed states, "Okay, I'll take the silence as a no. So! Staff Updates."
Rimilde says, "Oh yeah, I think me, but if there isn't time I won't. I'm undecided if I want to raise it."
Kinaed states to Rimilde, "I'll put yuo down and you can change your mind when I call on you."
Rimilde declares, "Thank you!"
Kinaed says, "If you have a topic, please write it up to be ready to present when I call on you so we're not waiting too long. We've got a lot to cover today."
Vicannia sits down on the ground.
James sits down and rests.
Kinaed says, "Okay, Staff Updates - I handled policy last week, approved a few things, but didn't get much done by way of big specs. Still looking at Jail Automation and Assets."
Kinaed states, "I don't expect to have more time to do these things until April, but I keep trying to find free time."
Kinaed says, "That's all for me. Azarial, you're up."
Kinaed has transferred Laxus. [OOC]
Azarial says, "It's been slow; a few bugs adn typos. rl has been bad this week."
Temi gives a miniaturized replica of a brightly-painted Merchant stall to Laxus.
Kinaed comforts Azarial.
Kinaed claims, "I should note that I've put in a request to remove a lot of the information currently available in whois as it has come to my attention that people are using it to identify whoinvis people."
Diana claims, "But isn't whois available even when the person is logged off? I thought so at any rate."
Addienna has lost link.
Vicannia trails off, "Well... having last logout does present that issue... though it's also useful for other things such as trying to see if someone has legitimately been on, such as prisoners"
Kinaed states to Diana, "It is, but it's what information it tells you - last logout and RP level."
Addienna has reconnected.
Kinaed nods at Vicannia.
Laxus trails off, "Yeah those crazy prisoners..."
Kinaed claims, "Sadly, I think use of those commands in a manner we didn't intend is probably a bigger and more common issue than the prisoner scenario or seeking scenario that we created the information for."
Kinaed states, "Okay, other changes - Long term inactive people will not show on the 'city council' command."
Vicannia claims, "Could there be a command similar to guildlist for prisoners in ahalin to check the last time they were on"
Kinaed states, "Liquidated chars will also not appear."
Rickart claims, "There's guildlist jail I just learned"
Kinaed states, "Last logout is still visible, but we've removed the itme of day."
Kinaed claims, "The change is already in - type 'whois Kinaed' or something."
Kinaed nods at Rickart.
Vicannia glances to rickart "There is? Interesting."
Kinaed states, "Okay, those are the big code changes."
Kinaed states to Temi, "You're up.
"Temi states, "Just the normal keeping the door open stuff."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Temi says, "Responding to requests, doing RPAs and plots and such."
Kinaed claims, "Those things are appreciated.
"Temi exclaims, "Please, note the current plots and feel free to interact with them!"
Azarial states, "I suspect niamh has done most of the work this week."
Temi claims, "The sick animals are still dying, and Niamh is eager to get that wolf hunted."
Kinaed states, "Oh yeah, it's a good time to plug, on behalf of an absent player - please check out the rumor system. It's not all vile vitriol about your fellows, there's also quest and plotlines there."
Laxus gasps!
Kinaed exclaims, "And on that note, last week a player asked for a 'big mob takedown' quest - guess what? We did one! Guess what didn't happen? Players didn't catch the big mob!"
Temi claims, "If you aren't the sort to be all gungho solve problems, you're also welcome to take on problems yourself."
Rickart only learned of that rumor today
Kinaed says, "So... it's extended to this week, but please take us up on the offer as it's a bit sad to do something at player request and have no interest actually show."
Laxus hears all the latest gossip from Heathcliff.
Kinaed wonders to Rickart, "I think the rumor we added yesterday. Prior, I think it was an IC event? Either way, there's a Plot Header on login, I think?"
Temi claims, "Like having your animals sick or know someone scarfed by a wolf. Feel free to reach out to staff with questins about those sorts of things, or just start a plot."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Rickart nods at Kinaed.
Diana asks, "Can we start a plot, on an existing plot that you guys have up?"
Kinaed claims, "Okay, that addressed one topic a player raised prior to the meeting too - the rumor system isn't all sniping. Check it out. End Plug.
"Kinaed claims to Diana, "Yes."
James muses, "So the wolf thing is in regular play, not an st?"
Temi says, "The plot headers are designed to start plots off of."
Kinaed nods at James.
Kinaed states to James, "It's a staff run plot. Different ballgame."
Kinaed questions, "I think that wraps up Staff Updates. Shall we move on to Player Heartbeat? How has the game been this last week, folks? RP fun?"
Laxus claims, "Heathcliff and I have been quite busy in the cells, so things are going well"
James claims, "I got stabbed"
Gothan says, "Not had a whole lot going on this week, but I had some fun scenes with people. "
Kinaed claims to James, "But still alive? Nice."
Haizea says, "I got a fun scene in but i think im also suffering the downside of removing gnotes"
Kinaed nods at Gothan.
Haizea states, "Ive had the same scene four times now"
Kinaed comforts Haizea.
Kinaed questions, "Maybe pen a letter?"
Vicannia has not been around, so can't really comment
Addienna giggles.
Kinaed nods at Vicannia.
Haizea states, "Ive written too"
James says, "Player accidentally used attack instead of safe, so now i get pain rp
"Kinaed comforts James.
Gothan states, "I've done that before. Woops. "
Laxus declares, "Also, I'm back for those that noticed my absense! Visiting times are kind of bad though"
Klaetela states, "Eh, the conversation on the forums has left me sort of paranoid about people, honestly."
Kinaed comforts Laxus.
Vicannia rolls eyes "That familiarity is not what is protecting anyone.
Diana says, "Oh dear. Forums areannoying for me, so I miss out on that front. I only visit them occasionally."
Kinaed states to Klaetela, "I like a bit of paranoia with my TI, honestly, but that might just be me."
Kinaed nods at Diana.
Diana trails off, "No, there's enough paranoia as is. Raise anymore and... yeah. My char's already paranoid. If I read the forums..."
Kinaed says, "Oh, Niamh's been working on the website. I'm liking the new look if anyone hasn't seen it."
James only ever uses forums for polls or to post an idea, everything else gets ignored.
Laxus says, "Yeah it looks great"
Gothan claims, "Yeah! The new site is awesome. "
Vicannia states, "The website is actually one of the things I wanted to bring up"
Temi states, "I think she's still looking for feedback, too."
Kinaed queries to Vicannia, "I've got you down, right? Mind holding on until then?"
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Vicannia claims, "Yep"
Haizea says, "I think ive hit the level of paranoia where im just waiting for this rp thread to be over so i can go rp about some other stuff"
Diana says to James, "I feel you. REally, the level of paranoia that dia is, is unreachaable. i totally understand."
Diana states to Haizea, "I feel you. REally, the level of paranoia that dia is, is unreachaable. i totally understand."
Gothan states, "Pfft. Just walk around in steel plate. "
Laxus has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Vicannia wonders if a large part of why they don't feel this paranoia is due to having had 20+ characters die in 4 years. Shrugs
Kinaed claims, "I don't really know how to respond to paranoia because it's generally not one of my personal concerns."
Kinaed muses, "Anyway, um... anything about the game shitting people of late?"
Kinaed nods at Vicannia.
say It's what I meant to bring up in my topic.
Klaetela states, "It's what I meant to bring up in my topic."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)
Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "Just different personality types is probably part of it too."
Rimilde trails off, "Personally I've been finding there is a lot more intrigue lately... things to RP about..."
Lyonie is idle.
Kinaed nods at Rimilde.
Kinaed states, "Sounds fun to me.
"Rimilde exclaims, "I'm engaged for the first time in a long while, because it's not the standard conflict and people are getting out and taking risks!"
James states, "Still kind of trying to find the way for my character, think I'm on a good path now, have some ideas."
Kinaed says to Klaetela, "Okay, I'll wait until your topic to elve deeper."
Vicannia claims, "Risks are great."
Kinaed smiles.
Kinaed nods at James.
Haizea declaims to Rimilde, "I have been enjoying the more political rp with you!"
Haizea claims, "The thread that im not enjoying aside"
Kinaed states, "Shall we move to Player Topics then? We have a lot of them.
"Rickart nods.
Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "You're up first."
Vicannia claims, "Firstly, I love the look and general outline of the new main page for the game. Though I feel it would be beneficial to put the voting links towards the top, versus having them at the very bottom, since voting is how we get new people. "
Kinaed nods at Vicannia.
Kinaed says, "Good feedback, I'll let Niamh know."
Kinaed begins to write a message on the courier's desk.
(This is an OOC mail.)
Vicannia clears their throat "Secondly... Why in the world did Staff approve a page to be Grand Inquisitor? I'm all for allowing people to fill roles, but I'm not a fan of theme and common bloody sense to be thrown out the window to allow such things. In no world does it make sense for such a thing to have occured. This is part of the reason I feared the order and knights merging back in the day, because something foolish like this would happen solely because the two are in the exact same guild." Pauses "I mean I don't mean to be accusatory but it just makes no sense whatsoever, at least from an outside looking in perspective."
Kinaed finishes writing her mail.
Kinaed claims, "The same reason we approve a bardic apprentice to become Poet Laudate. Someone who worked their way into the guild wanted it, no one else wanted it in the guild, even the players we asked, and the 2nd GL consented. It's an OOC procedure that we use to prevent us from apping in people above people's IC hard work and RP. It doesn't always work out well story wise, so we fill this in with a story reason. There is a story reason there. I think it was a really good one, actually, but you're welcome to ICly treat it with the incredulity that it deserves."
Lyonie is no longer idle.
Lyonie has returned from AFK.
Vicannia states, "That is a pathetic reasoning kinaed. Frankly with all other guilds, it makes some sense given they are technically the same guild. I don't care what people think, but order and knights fulfill very different roles"
Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "That's an opinion statement, which you're welcome to, but that is our longstanding policy."
Kinaed says, "One in which you probably have even benefited from in the past."
Diana says, "Wow wow wow, no need to be so rude though. I get what you're saying, but I'm with Kin on this one. yeah, it kind of twists the story a bit, but that has been the policy. That if you're in the guild, and you want it, and no one higher ranking wants it, you get that position."
Vicannia narrows eyes "Yes, misune became em... But guess what, he was a squire, in the knights guild. Not a page in the order
Kinaed questions, "Did you have anything else you wanted to raise?"
Kinaed nods at Diana.
Temi claims, "We agree it's twisted, but feel free to take out the crazies IC. Then it's probably good for RP."
Rimilde claims, "Sometimes unexpected controversial decisions can cause the most RP (often)"
Vicannia states, "I have nothing else to add. I'm just disgusted that staff would throw any common sense and theme out the window."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Klaetela queries, "I feel super awkward saying anything here, and my Order char wouldn't have wanted the job really, but I didn't notice seen the pboard before the decision was made, so maybe could I request a little bit longer for that? "
Diana says, "Man, what is with this rudeness going on right now? Not enjoying it. Just putting that out there. Sorry, shutting up."
Kinaed says to Vicannia, "Again, you're welcome to your opinion and feelings on the matter. This is a long standing policy, and the Order is currently one guild. The player wanted the role, other players in the guild said no, they consented to the action, we formed an IC reason - so one actually does exist, if you have the wherewithal to actually seek it."
Gothan claims, "I did consent to that because I'd much rarther have a GI than go without one for a while, once again. I did bring up the concerns about the legitimacy of the IC reason for the decision (As it is quite bizarre...), but I nodded my head anyway. It'll likely create some neat roleplay to go along with it... as Rimilde says. "
Kinaed nods at Klaetela.
Kinaed states to Gothan, "It is bizzarre. You can treat that as IC."
Gothan pontificates, "Yup!"
Haizea nods.
Rickart says, "There is that part, it's true. The post to order said internal candidates had 24 hours but one of the people who was online grabbed it within hours before another order player who might have wanted it had even had the chance to log on and say if she did or not. We might have waited the full 24 to see if there were other candidates (who would have been less ic stretch) first from the other guild members who hadn't said no yet."
Vicannia states, "Stretch is putting it lightly"
Addienna whistles a happy tune.
James just scratches his head at various oddities of people in ic power, shrugs, rp's, waits for them to be found in a gutterturns out they are a magethey stop logging in, then see what the next one is.
Kinaed claims, "I'm sorry, I thought everyone who was active was online and saw the note. I specifically sought out those who were pertinent in the decision - ie, Gothan and Rothgar. I figured if the others didn't respond, it was disinterest."
Rickart nods.
Kinaed says, "In any case, happy to wait 24 hours in the future."
Kinaed states, "It would also be more helpful if people actually edited the note expressing interest and whatnot instead of sending tells."
Rickart nods.
Temi says, "We could make that official policy."
Kinaed claims, "When I receive a tell about it in the future, I will direct them to post on the note to register their interest officially so all guild members can see it and respond."
Temi exclaims, "And respond to tells with 'Thanks! Please edit the note!'"
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Temi nods.
Kinaed asks of Vicannia, "Did you have any other topics to raise?"
James claims, "Big red letters at the bottom of the note saying from what time to what time people have to edit opinions"
Vicannia states, "I said I had nothing else to add."
Azarial muses to Kinaed, "Mobile again?"
Kinaed states to James, "It's a bit hard with timezones *grin* There's a datestamp at the top of the note though."
Kinaed claims to Azarial, "Not at the moment, actually."
Azarial nods.
Azarial states, "You can use the servertime in 'who' as well"
Kinaed muses to Klaetela, "You're up. Care to introduce us to your topic?"
James claims to Kinaed, "That might be true. but you can do what whomever did for the upcoming auction, tell them it's system time."
Kinaed muses to James, "Doesn't that go without saying?"
Azarial states, "All date stamps will be servetime"
James states to Kinaed, "Probably
"Kinaed nods at Azarial.
Kinaed says, "24 hours from when a note is posted is the "Date" field in the top of the note +24 hours."
Kinaed claims, "I think Klae may be AFK."
Klaetela states, "Ah, I was typing in notepad."
Kinaed says, "Ahh, okay! We'll wait then."
Addienna queries, "Can I be trans'd? time to put on counters"
Klaetela states, "I know that some various things give small bits of rpxp - sending mail, thinks (there might be other I'm not aware of), I'm wondering if there might be a thought or consideration for giving small bits of rpxp for shopping at a PC shop versus an NPC shop. Or even raising some prices. Or maybe encouraging people to seek out Merchants for party things before just getting the free QP help. But - as someone who wants to play a Freeman merchant type, it's difficult to realize that NPCs and/or staff can and often do seem to fulfill what you do - better, quicker, cheaper, etc. "
Addienna has been transferred out by Kinaed. [OOC]
Kinaed states, "Raising prices won't work - we already charge 4x the creation cost to give PCs leeway to be cheaper."
Kinaed questions to Azarial, "Can we codewise distinguish a PC shop from an NPC shop at this time?"
Haizea states, "Staff-generated party stuff can only come from NPC shops too, untooled"
Azarial says, "Should, yeah."
Rickart states, "Since it was busy I was going to cover all that next week Klae. I have some more on that topic that she and I had discussed"
Azarial says, "I'd haev to check and see how rosters were handled to mkae sure."
Kinaed states, "Right now, staff have a policy that we don't give out or sell things to players that can be gotten on grid."
Temi claims, "I think we could tell the difference - ones that have an owner."
James has had to deal with that when a past character wanted a sword.
Temi states, "It changes whether you can haggle or not already."
Diana says, "Right, and if I were to do an event, I try an give the rp and the business to a player, rather than asking staff."
Haizea nods.
Kinaed nods.
Haizea states, "It would have all been stock stuff if i hadn't gone to pcs for the flower crowns/food/drinks/candles/take-home mugs for spring awakening"
Rimilde says, "Yeah I always try to go PC over NPC if that is an option, but sometimes it's not so I'm glad we have NPCs for stuff."
Kinaed states to Klaetela, "Let us think about what else we can do, or request board us? I'm not sure we can hash this out in the OOC Chat, and there's probably a few small synergistic things to do as opposed to a big single change we can all easily agree on."
Temi claims, "We do only do the default tables for events, which is nice to have the option when you want to run an event quickly. But not preferred."
nod kinaed
Klaetela nods at Kinaed.
Rimilde wonders, "Perhaps a forum post might also get people to brainstorm a bit?"
Kinaed nods at Rimilde.
Rimilde pontificates, "Love to see more happy established merchants!"
Kinaed wonders to Klaetela, "Mind doing a forum post?"
Gothan exclaims, "We need blacksmiths!"
Kinaed muses to Rimilde, "Okay, you're up next?
"Klaetela states, "Sure, I can start one."
James states, "Definitely need smiths"
Rimilde claims, "I realize this is going to be controversial but here goes."
Azarial asks, "I thought there was a smith, and she responded to mails or notes?"
Rimilde claims, "Lithmore is a big city, there are a lot of people, generic items shouldn't be used to automatically identify people. Conclusions should be made from IC ONLY and if you are making one that's pretty significant and would not come easy, there should be cnotes on how you got there, rolls if applicable. I've been noticing what I'm sure is unintentional for lack of a better term, metagaming (really I think it's unintentional), and it kills the fun. It's not a game about winning, it's a story and part of that, is working hard to solve things, either on the lawful or the criminal side. I am not accusing anyone of anything, but just some ongoing observation. I tend to address it if it's significant, as it is often unintended. I think we just get lost in the moment sometimes."
Rickart says, "There's one master blacksmith on merchants active and one inactive codely right now"
Kinaed states to Rimilde, "It's okay to be controversial. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and thoughts.
"Haizea nods at Rimilde.
Rickart claims, "But i find crafts often usually just need mail not the luck of finding them in rp"
Rickart says, "Crafters*"
Kinaed claims to Rimilde, "I'd agree with that - that's part of why we moved cloak descs onto cloaks. I sort of feel like fighting this behavior with code has been encouraging people to see code as the be all, end all though, and that's not the intent. We're an RP game. Picking out that one black cloaked individiual as Bob in a crowd at Church Square is just wrong, even if Bob is the only person on the wholist besides you."
Rimilde claims, "Lately it's bothered me, to the point of having to make some game decisions, so I raise it, but just please, IC information IC, anything you notice OOC NEEDS IC justification and shouldn't be a tip. Yeah it's exactly stuff like that Kinaed."
Temi claims, "Now, if it's got a pink-polka-dotted pony on it.. please feel free to identify that."
Kinaed nods at Temi.
Temi says, "Including when someone steals the cloak and impersonates Bob."
James says, "Heh, I've actually brought up icly that someone needs something more identifiable on them because I'd always be ready to attack them before they revealed themselves."
Kinaed states, "As recently as a couple of weeks ago, we had a player use the wholist to figure out a person's surname after a first-name-only introduction. *ponder*"
Kinaed questions to James, "I don't understand what you just said, clarify?"
Kinaed claims, "Wait, I think you mean that you told someone you didn't know who they were ICly, but you knew OOCly, because they were lacking anything remarkably identifying and might have attacked."
Rickart states, "Hopefully that was just a newbie mistake"
James claims to Kinaed, "That, yes"
Kinaed states to Rickart, "I think it was just a newbie mistake, but obviously it's something that we have to address."
Rickart nods.
Vicannia muses, "I'm assuming the person's surname wasn't in their helpfile? Or was it in the same scene that they "Discovered" the surname"
Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "Nope. THe reason it made it to me is that it was a plot point for that char that they never introduced their surname into the game at all."
say Just as an FYI as a new player RPing not knowing people's names I was told I should know certain people's names because folks on public guildlists etc should be assumed to be widely known, so that might be folks getting different info on what they should/shouldn't assume.
Klaetela says, "Just as an FYI as a new player RPing not knowing people's names I was told I should know certain people's names because folks on public guildlists etc should be assumed to be widely known, so that might be folks getting different info on what they should/shouldn't assume."
Diana claims, "Yeah, but it might be that person heard person b's surname somewhere else completely different, and they were talking to the same person b before person A had them on their remember list, but could remember them by sight."
James says to Kinaed, "Wouldn't something like the name thing be kind of walking the line? if it's in the same conversation, I can understand, but after a few days, wouldn't someone have found out the full name from npcs and such. Though, yeah, if they rp'd never sharing it. I've been there, had peopple call a character by a name I never shared."
Kinaed states, "I've gotten some tells with examples people have experienced, either recently or over time that I'd like to share. For example: People thinking someone was a rebirth because "they're the same height". Or " People know who I am because of the WHO list even though there's no reason in the scene they'd know". "
Haizea claims, "Oof"
Kinaed claims, "And a lot of guessing who cloaked people are based on the who list and whereRP."
Rimilde says, "Keep in mind though, HUGE city, a name like James for example might have 10 while a name like Klaetela might not, little things like that."
Klaetela says, "I'm unique."
James blends into the background.
Kinaed claims to Klaetela, "It's fine if they're listed in the Guildleader command, put their full name in their player help file, or are in a Help File. Albeit, if you were just introduced to someone, it's a bit weird to know their surname before your char has had time to ask around (which is what the HELP PLAYER <NAME> represents)."
Diana says, "Like I had that situation once. I heard james's last name, but not their first name. I remember him by sight, but didn't have them in my remember list. Later on, james told me his first name, though I had already heard someone Addienna maybe, someone else, call him Miaster Graves. So then in that case, do you see what Im' trying to get at? Someone might have found it icly just before they were remembered, or even properly introduced, just by being in a scene."
Vicannia claims, "I'm somewhat guilty of that last one, though typically only in large scenes where there is alot of unknown people. I'll use who to try and give names to people just for the sake of targetting, but I never bring the name up icly until introduction"
Temi says, "Listening to other people being introduced or using their name is okay, I'd say."
Kinaed says to Diana, "I think that'd be fine. But that's a time when you clearly got the info ICly and put it together. We're talking about a time when a person never heard Mister Graves, it was just convenient for them to take it off the wholist and play fast and loose with "NPCs told me" as the excuse. Not okay."
James literally had a Page Boils in his remember list, that got changed when he was introduced as the new GI.
Azarial asks, "...boiled gi?"
Haizea says, "Someone has almaz remembered as Improbable Hill Knight
"Kinaed states to Azarial, "Yum"
Azarial states, "Which bunny trails into hardboiled onion noir."
James states, "TPB the redhead Charalin woman that used to run the queen's had alot of fun with their remember list."
Kinaed says, "Okay, we're running out of time and I have some anonymous topics to bring up on other people's behalf."
Diana states to James, "Yes, I remember that scene we had regarding Dia's name. That was hilarious."
Vicannia claims, "I miss Safir's, think I am remembering her characters name right, naming of people, especially the times she wouls scribe ooc chats"
James states to Vicannia, "That was her, Safir."
Kinaed wonders, "So... on behalf of an anonymous player - apparently there have been a LOT of mage sightings recently. So much so that the 'low magic' feel of TI seems to be distrupted. The player was curious if others noted it, and if people liked that atmospheric change or not?"
Rickart states, "For me that was Magecember. January has been more chill"
Vicannia claims, "TI seems to go through phases of low mage activity and then high mage activity. Probably just part of that phase"
Kinaed nods.
Haizea says, "I wouldnt mind making the weather spells subtle so youre not obligated to freak out all the time"
Temi states, "I do think we have some more obvious effects than we might have had previously, and have heard that before."
James claims to Kinaed, "I've been back in game for close to 2 weeks, no magery sightings and only one public mage accusation and one pyring of a supposed mage. So seems low to me.'"
Gothan claims, "Yeah those spells do make it seem like the world is actually ending."
Gothan nods at Haizea
Vicannia trails off, "I will never understand the purpose of the weather spells..."
Temi states, "The flying and shimmering people running around with no compunction, and such."
Azarial claims, "Well, a lot of rains can clear tracks."
Haizea nods at Temi.
Rimilde claims, "I like it, I think it's a reminder that there is magic, which sometimes the game has felt like there isn't, it gives people something to talk about. I also liked whatever happened in Church Square that was affecting everyone."
James says, "Cats and dogs living together"
Kinaed says, "Yeah, they sort of strike me as 6th to 7th Circle honestly, though I think it's fun to be a mage who can affect things that widely."
Vicannia questions, "Those spells are actually affected by such things?"
Azarial claims, "And it;s mostly only the city."
Vicannia says, "Intrigueing"
Diana claims, "No, I don't like that atmospheric change at all. Especially with those of us who are already paranoid."
James states, "Not sure if it was magic or not, but the other day when there was the waterspouts and tornadoes(guess that's what they were) that actually lead me to use ic commands to try and figure out the origin of them"
Temi starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)
Temi finishes her note.
Haizea states, "The tornadoes are exciting the first few times"
Vicannia chuckles "mages are far less deadly now... Paranoia back in the times of empyrclap and other such spells was rather justified
Azarial says, "Vortex"
Vicannia questions, "Wasn't there some spell that had clap in it's name?"
Temi wonders, "What do people think of the invis cloaks?"
Rimilde trails off, "I like that there is a lot of paranoia inducing actions, rather than just attacks, it keeps people aware of the risk, adds RP, gives the Order something to follow on..."
Diana states, "I think the invis cloaks make it way too easy for mages to just escape. There's no real way to break it, so when a mage is wearing one, or wears one, then they're just helpless. I agree that mages should have invisibility, but there should be some way to break it."
Kinaed says, "I think we've had one actual character death - a mage pyred - in the last 2 OOC months, so I don't think things are really dangerous in terms of dying."
Gothan trails off, "It does get a bit frustrating from a Knight viewpoint when these big things tend to happen (The jam in the church square), and that there isn't really a way for us to counter it. That I know of..."
Vicannia silences so that kinaed can continue with the two more topics?
Kinaed nods at Diana.
Rimilde states, "I think invisibility is good, otherwise it's too easy to catch them."
Kinaed nods at Gothan.
Haizea nods at Gothan.
Kinaed asks, "Does the cloak of invisibility work at all differently to just casting cloak of the seven?"
Haizea states, "I might just be a party pooper but im burned out on shimmer mages cause theres only one real way to react to that kind of thing interrupting your scene unless youre a knight"
Haizea states, "(well go get your knight active, haizea)"
Rickart nods at Gothan.
Diana states, "Yeah, but then it's the order is like helpless. Completely, because there's now ay to kind of counteract it. Perhaps not counteract it completely, but to be able to do something. Otherwise, the order are like completely helpless. it's like a escape route that can never be taken away. No one else has that."
Vicannia asks, "Wait a second? There is now an actual invisibility cloak? yeah not sure how I feel about that, I thought we were just referring to cloak of the seven"
say I sort of wish that Piety was still a thing, like feeling like a pious sort of Order char could actually influence something, that might be against the Diest them of the LoS not interferring in stuff, but ... sucks to feel helpless sometimes.
Klaetela claims, "I sort of wish that Piety was still a thing, like feeling like a pious sort of Order char could actually influence something, that might be against the Diest them of the LoS not interferring in stuff, but ... sucks to feel helpless sometimes."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)
Temi claims to Kinaed, "It takes place immediately, and if it gets knocked off, the item becomes unusable for like 5 minutes, I believe."
Kinaed states, "You can counteract any spell in the game with mage ash."
Rimilde claims, "And you can shoot at shimmery people"
Vicannia exclaims, "It's a multiple use item?!"
Kinaed nods at Rimilde.
Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "I didn't think cloaks ewre."
Kinaed says to Vicannia, "I think we're discussing actual cloaks, not the spell cloak of the seven. Cloak of the seven has been around for literally years."
Temi nods.
Kinaed states, "I think there's something off with the magecloaks though, immediate reuse was one bug we found wiht them."
Azarial states, "Iirc that was a core ti spell form the beginning"
Kinaed nods at Azarial.
Temi claims, "I'm thinking we should remove the cloaks, honestly, and we've done some fixing on them, but it's not quite right yet."
Temi states, "Unless we could make it so that wearing the cloak invises and then is gone."
James says, "We need nets that can catch someone invis if they are in a room and it's thrown over a section. Like "throw net southwest" it covers x amount of feet in the southwest corner, if someone is invis there, they then get treated as cloaked, if they aren't, oh well, they aren't here."
Kinaed claims, "It fits in our spying model of a mage, so that in itself is fine. It's not really good for enacting a pkill. It's more of 'damn, someone's watching me, and I know it, and I can't do anything about it'"
Gothan questions, "I asked this question before to someone, but they didn't know. When someones wooshes invisible, does search have any chance of finding them... or no?"
Kinaed says, "Which honestly isn't the most terrible thing in the world in my opinion."
Azarial says, "Yeah, could destroy the cloak when the invis comes off, I think"
Haizea nods at Kinaed.
Kinaed says to Gothan, "No, it doesn't."
Vicannia trails off, "I know cloak of the seven has been around for years. And I think a one time use invis cloak makes sense... because otherwise that seems just too OP"
Kinaed nods.
Vicannia asks, "Though then what prevents someone from having like 10 in their inventory?"
Kinaed states to Azarial, "Let's make cloaks of invisibility fade away after use."
Kinaed claims to Vicannia, "Cost, mostly."
Temi starts writing a note. (This is an OOC action)
Kinaed pontificates, "Okay, more topics!"
Vicannia questions, "I'm assuming it's a very high tier magecraft item?"
Temi finishes her note.
Kinaed states to Vicannia, "Don't know, magecraft was Takta's baby. I don't handle most of the crafts, just trust the builders."
Temi claims, "I did some of the magecraft stuff after Takta's initial."
Temi states, "Dont' recall if that was already there.. I think it might have been. But yes, it's way up there."
Kinaed says, "In that sense, if you guys find stuff that's off with things, please DO bring them up here. TI is a huge game, it's hard for any one person to keep track of every little detail, every little command, etc."
Kinaed says, "We're going over time now, and I still have topics. May we continue? The next is also controversial."
Haizea claims, "Pvp games are a lot of work to balance"
James declares, "Yay controversy!"
Kinaed has transferred Carys. [OOC]
Carys waves.
Temi gives a miniaturized replica of a brightly-painted Merchant stall to Carys.
Haizea waves to Carys.
Kinaed has transferred Nalien. [OOC]
Rickart waves to Carys.
Temi gives a miniaturized replica of a brightly-painted Merchant stall to Nalien.
Rickart nods at Nalien.
Kinaed states, "Okay, I got a Request Post asking about this - from three different people."
Vicannia trails off, "Ooh..."
Kinaed says, "Right now, according to policy, 1st GLs control a guild. They can demote, fire, etc, a 2nd GL."
Vicannia trails off, "Ok..."
Gothan claims, "Even with the Order? I always assumed that the EM and GI were just heads of two different branches. With the cardinal sitting above them."
Kinaed claims, "In some instances, particularly where we've just put a first GL in that's unestablished when a 2nd GL has been around for a long time, or even story wise where the 1st GL doesn't select the 2nd GL... yeah. So, one of the players' point was - well, if the 1st GL can just resolve conflict that way, isn't it bad for the game? Isn't it just a bit too easy to make your problems go away, and the 2nd GL is of similar power. So, the suggestion raised is that 2nd GLs should potentially have to be gambited to be removed."
Kinaed nods at Gothan.
Azarial states, "I believe gambit code should respect that; just need to adjust promote"
Temi states, "Except that doesn't get rid of them. That just gives them no reason to try to get along with you any longer. And mayber reduces a bit of barb."
Rimilde states, "I am torn, I get that, but I also like the idea of there being some politics in the game which I think lacks a lot, especially since we are just Lithmore based, we need the trouble here. So if a 1st GL fires a second GL it gives the guild a reason to rise up."
Haizea states, "I could see it being necessary in some GL relationships like tenebrae/sapiente's relationship"
Haizea states, "Im getting some good rp out of the demotion that just happened, but i was also surprised to find out it was possible in a noncovert guild"
Kinaed claims to Gothan, "I'll be honest - given the recent raising of a GI from a page (sorry, Nalien, I know you're present - this isn't against you), I think it just kicked off the questions. Policy-wise, staff have always just let the first GL run the guild and gone along with anything the first GL says."
Vicannia says, "That seems like a foolish expectation. A first gl in most guilds is the most powerful position, minus the order where The grand inquisitor and archbishop fulfill two very different roles."
Kinaed claims, "It keeps us from making qualitative decisions about what is right."
Rimilde claims, "Though maybe a firing like that requires a certain amount of IP to do it? Not sure that might be defeating the purpose."
Nalien waves his hand in amusement
Klaetela claims, "I might honestly say we should consider having a top 1 GL and maybe 2 second tier GLs, I mean it seems we have several Guilds at the moment where the GLs aren't active, given the number of people who are just being automatically clanned. "
Nalien states, "I've had these questions myself"
Carys wonders what she stepped into. x.x
Vicannia claims, "Also really if a 2nd GL doesn't claim the first GL spot, then they open themselves up for their own demotion to potentially happen"
Rimilde claims, "You can give people GL authority without them being a GL"
Azarial says, "Merchants appears to ba that subtle activity bug cropping up again."
Rickart queries, "Well that might in part be a remnant from the merger. It was Cardinal 1st, GI 2nd in Order, EM 1st, GM 2nd in Knights. It looks like now GI is the 1st Gl in order? If that gives him the power to dismiss the EM at will, that does seem a little off; it would be the cardinal"
Kinaed nods at Rimilde.
Haizea states to Kinaed, "I think part of the problems too are like our pbase size & code restrictions on who can GL has made it hard to have everyone comfortable with everyone elses positions"
Temi states, "The knights primarily serve the inquisition"
Kinaed says to Rimilde, "You can, a GL can promote someone to 'leader' and delegate leader commands."
Rimilde nods at Vicannia. "Yup, I mean it's realistic, if we get a new Deputy Minister they can go and fire all the people right below them, change of the tide, it's common in politics. You put your friends in."
Temi says, "I think it makes sense the GI could get rid of the EM"
Kinaed trails off, "I think that..."
Diana states, "How about this? So if a first gl wants to demote a second gl, then the guild and perhaps anyone has to vote? I mean if anyone outside wants to vote it'd cost a few ip points, but they can to. It doesn't necessarily have to be a gambit, since a gambit is conflict driven. Just a vote a poll."
Kinaed claims, "Historically, the EM is elected by the GMs."
Vicannia trails off to Rickart, "My understanding of the merger is that it is moreso a unspoken agreement that The GI and EM don't muck with each other's guild out of respect... and exactly rimilde"
Carys states, "The knights have historically had a degree of independence so that they could also monitor the church to a degree."
Azarial claims, "Gambits are votes."
Azarial says, "Any other votes are, after several incidents historically, ignored."
Temi states, "You do need to respect your underlings if you want them to continue to do work for you."
Temi grins.
Kinaed claims, "I think the GI *could* get rid of an EM, but it'd be circuitous, and require establishment, etc. It wouldn't be "I'm GI, you report to me, you're fired" "
Rickart nods at Kinaed.
Temi states, "If the GI got rid of a popular EM, they'd have a lot less helpful knights suddenly."
Rimilde states, "Eh, voting makes it too democratic imho, it removes any power plays which I think lead to a lot of RP"
Haizea nods at Temi.
Carys says, "I think that that certainly goes against the -spirit- of the merger between the guilds, even if is allowed by code."
Kinaed asks, "Should I throw a poll up asking people what they think the differing ways for a 2nd GL to be removed ought to be?"
Diana says, "I was kind of with gothan with that. I thought the em and GI were like the heads of two branches. No, voting makes it better. you can't just fire someone, just because you don't like them. It kills the rp."
say Except that power plays often happen at levels not everyone can get into.
Klaetela claims, "Except that power plays often happen at levels not everyone can get into."
(This is an OOC room. Nothing counts for rpxp here.)
Vicannia muses, "And if we take away from the First GL's power, why even bother with a second GL?"
Haizea nods at Kinaed.
Nalien states, "I think adding too much democracy is bad for the game."
Diana claims, "I'm rather of the opposite opppinion. I want more democracy."
Carys states to Nalien, "I agree with that."
Kinaed claims to Nalien, "I agree."
Azarial states, "As i asid, gambits are a voting method. any other method will be retconned."
Rimilde claims, "I mean voting outside the gambit system, the gambit system seems fine by me though I think you should be able to gambit a 2nd GL, like the guild could, rather than just the 1st GL"
Kinaed states to Diana, "It's not our theme to be democratic."
Rimilde agrees with Nalien.
Rickart claims, "Poll works. I think Order is a special case because of the merger"
Kinaed says, "But it *is* our theme to be political, and often that means measuring influence, which can sometimes "feel" democratic."
Kinaed says, "Because people's opinions matter."
Haizea claims, "Weird train of thought but: i think more things ought to be settled with duels"
Kinaed nods at Rickart.
Azarial grins at Haizea.
Kinaed says to Haizea, "Totally."
Diana claims, "No, it isn't but doesn't mean that certain things can't be. Like the city support thing. i think people's thoughts, icly should be heard, especially when it involves their guild."
Carys claims, "More duels."
Rimilde declaims, "I agree with Haizea, talk to a helpful reeve about duels!"
Rickart says to Klaetela, "Merchant GL activity issue is addressed now"
Carys says, "I wrote laws on duels."
Haizea claims, "You shame my house, you pay in blood"
Rimilde states, "Seriously, we'd LOVE that RP."
Rimilde states, "And those laws on duels are publicly posted btw."
Haizea nods.
Haizea pontificates, "Outside the cityguard!"
Rimilde muses, "They have not been tested, which is something we'd be keen to do, maybe an opportunity for an ST or something?"
Kinaed says, "Okay, I'll put up a post on the forums to discuss this issue. And may I say thank you for Nalien and Gothan for being good sports in discussing an issue that ultimately affects them and I hope isn't too uncomfortable."
James says to Kinaed, "Since 1st GL is usually picked by the need to fill the spot since a GL is needed. maybe make the 2nd gl spot only filled by vote from within the guild itself. For example, Kinaed is rolled and turned into Merchant Guild Leader 1, because people want someone in the spot, but no one wants it. But Merch Leader 2 is voted from the crafter players in the guild, so they know they have someone they believe would have their best interests in mind, instead of 'oh, they'll both do what they want and we'll follow'"
Kinaed states, "I'd like to ask that if you, as a player, have a view on how 2nd GLs ought to be demoted or removed from office, please pboard me with the options to help me make the poll more reasonable."
Vicannia shakes head "I will never understand why we make issues out of things that really shouldn't be an issue in the first place."
Kinaed says to James, "I don't think I'm going to do that, sadly. It's too much effort to get a GL in now without setting up a vote, not to mention too democratic for our theme, in my opinion."
Nalien says, "Well, this particular issue has some IC bearing"
Haizea nods.
Rimilde says, "I also think that 1st GLs should have some powers, patronage is a key element in politics, even today."
Kinaed states, "I think everyone wants to know what to expect so they can act strategically in game."
Kinaed trails off, "Okay, last question..."
Vicannia trails off, "I don't really see how it has ic bearing. There is a reason the order has a total of 4 possible GLs..."
Kinaed states, "Er, topic."
Kinaed wonders, "How is the City Council working out?"
Rimilde claims, "Too soon to comment on that."
Diana says, "Same"
Kinaed claims, "It doesn't seem as if the world imploded when we removed Court's code support."
Kinaed nods.
Haizea claims, "Im actually using my city supports to politick instead of just filling my court role"
Azarial says, "Metric handling code appears to be working up to spec."
Diana asks, "Oh yeah, question on that. The court code support. What happens to those people who get money from the court? Who do we talk to to get that... you know restarted?"
Kinaed says, "Okay, happy to table it for a later discussion, especially given how long this chat is going.
"Nalien queries, "Did this start an hour aho? "
Kinaed says to Diana, "The Seneschal, I think."
Diana claims, "Cool cool, will do."
Vicannia shrugs "Just from an outside perspective and from what information is available... It feels like city council is just a rebranding of order
Nalien states, "My timing is all off. "
Vicannia claims, "I mean court"
Kinaed nods at Vicannia.
Haizea says to Vicannia, "It is, but nobles now operate more independently"
Temi states, "We're hoping the rebranding makes things a little clearer who does what."
Kinaed states, "In a large way, the original intent was to make Court the City Council, long ago. It didn't pan out because some key players didn't like that. Churn in the pbase and an inability to find a Keeper of the Seal meant it was a transition we could go to."
Kinaed says, "So we did."
James wonders, "It's been a while since I played, I forget, can you still join 2 guilds, or is it just 1?"
Haizea states, "I like it. obviously."
Temi states, "And centers things in Lithmore."
Vicannia states, "Which truthfully I had hoped would not be the case when it was introduced. I personally would like to see something where those with actual influence are able to take part."
Nalien states, "Unless you're a GL, two"
Diana states, "Two, unless you're gl."
Kinaed states to James, "2 guilds unless you're a GL, in which case you cannot dual guild."
Rimilde claims, "You can influence city council through voting though."
Nalien says, "City council certainly allows a lot more politicking"
Rimilde states, "And you can try to influence those on the council as well."
Azarial states, "Pick your metric and run with it. there are benefits to raising and loweinrg all of them"
Vicannia claims to Rimilde, "Sure, but it'd be nice to also have the option to join the city council after sometime, especially if your character has shown a tendency to be influential and with their influence have affected the city"
Haizea says to Vicannia, "Guilds also benefit from certain metrics being high or low, if you want to make alliances"
Temi says, "Maybe purchasing roles on the council with IPs, lasting for a few months before they have to be repurchasd or such.."
Temi ponders.
Kinaed states, "Okay, it's almost a whole half hour over. I think we need to wrap up now.
"Diana states, "Yes, but that's hard to measure Vicannia. If you icly have been influential without being a noble, or gl, then how is it codedly measured, that you are influential? it's a grey line. Oh yeah Temi, that's a cool idea."
Temi states, "Instead of just buying 'votes' for IP... or in addition."
Vicannia says to Temi, "Now that would be a great idea"
Haizea nods at Temi.
Azarial states, "Support measures that."
Rimilde says, "I think having more people involved with the council would be good, but there needs to be a forum for it as well. I hope to see more meetings, the ones we had were great and open to the public."
Kinaed claims, "Okay, thank you for coming everyone."
Vicannia claims to Diana, "Activity. If your character has the influence or money to affect city metrics through actions"
Klaetela waves.
Gothan declares, "I should like to attend a meeting sometime... but everytime they were held it was much too late for me! "
James braces for impact.
Rickart states, "Pacific timers"
Kinaed claims, "And thank you for your patience in staying over. Please remember to vote for TI too help us attract more players to play with. I'm glad TI has felt more political lately also."